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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Congrats Mike!
Hope you enjoyed the chase!


Thanks, it has been interesting. After over a dozen matches with no points, I got legs in four of my last seven. In those dozen I had several first leathers, some bad luck, and some poor shooting, but I would not have it any other way.

There is a big match the first week of June in Carthage. I hope to go out there. They have a nice short ceremony for those who leg out. If not I will be at Perry in August.

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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by Mike70560
Originally Posted by ChrisF
There’s much about shooting groups on this board but I got an amazing lesson in knowing your rifle/ammo capabilities and keeping things centered up.


It usually takes about three matches for me to be comfortable with my zeros when changing scopes/uppers. I shot at Oak Ridge this past weekend.


[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

That is both strings and sighters at 300, 22 shots total. This was my second match with a new upper. It was a good confirmation that my zero was 1/2 minute or so off. (I felt my NPA was slightly right of center). I shot a 195 with 5.



[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

Sunday we shot a Leg match, made the 1/2 minute change, NPA was a little better. 99-2X (I stuck a 9 way out on shot number 8, knew it when I let it go)

Keeping things centered up is important, and difficult.

This is the 300 yard target. The course of fire to start standing, load a magazine with 2 rounds on a closed bolt, targets up, 70 seconds to get in prone position with a sling, no rest, shoot two rounds, change magazines, shoot eight rounds. The ten ring is 7" diameter, so it is a little over 2 minute angle at 300 yards. Tough target with a sling, 4.5 power scope, 4.5 pound trigger, getting in position, mag changes, wind changes, NPA, etc. and in the EIC (Leg) matches you get no sighters.

I won the Leg Match, got a hard leg, only need four to go out.


What? You mean you don’t shoot that off a bench with a rifle rest and sandbags?? Don’t go confusing bsa with CMP rapid fire rules..

Edit- we had our first mid range match last week, and you could see the rust from the winter in alot of the scores. I didn’t shoot because I had to work.

When you figure out shooting is shooting, you'll be one step ahead of the game. As of right now, none of you cowboys have posted up any (let alone sub moa or moa) targets for the events started here in this forum. 79s tried, but nothing was even MOA, so he gave up. At least Rost had balls enough to shoot irons and post up a good score. Like I said, its all talk, unless you want to prove it. You are more than welcome to shoot those targets. Just sayin. Excuses are like azzholes too, "everyone has one".


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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bsa1917hunter,
Sorry there was a bit of jabs directed toward you following my post. That was certainly not the intent of my post. It was rather letting the score shooters know that with a skilled driver that understands how to center up and understand shot dispersion, even 55's and 62's can do more that what many think.

I've been around long enough to understand that folks have different reasons for shooting. You clearly like to wring out your rifle and ammo off the bench. Good for you for finding what you want out of your shooting. I was there at one time and wanted nothing more than to shoot little bitty groups. After a long while of chasing that down, I decided that I wanted more...Thanks to some team shooters, I was sold on position shooting with a sling as my next challenge. And challenge it was/is because I have terrible eyes. As difficult as it's been, I am strangely fulfilled when I succeed because of the depth of the hole that I started in. I was discussing with a friend what motivated us to compete and why many folk don't want to (not a jab pointed at you for the record). One reason we felt more folks didn't compete in highpower was the fear of public humbling. Your scores are tabulated, and your successes and failures are distributed very publicly (especially now a days in the internet era). Believe it or not...I like that.

Funny story (at my expense). One year competing at Camp Perry in the Presidents Match, I shot a good score at 200 Standing and a good score at 300 Prone Rapid. Unbeknownst to me, the CMP was updating the scores on their site in real time, so my friends back home were well aware of where I was in the ranking (better than I even, because I only knew my score but not everyone else's). Each of the 1500 or so competitors were vying to be one of the top 100 shooters to be part of the Presidents 100 and I apparently was well in the running after two of the three stages. Well, after the first 5 shots at 600, I was still in the running until I cross fired. I put a round on someone else's target which scores a big fat ZERO. Needless to say, I didn't make the Presidents 100 that year....and I caught a lot of grief when I got home. So much for my private misery... But you know, I'm still good with putting my scores on the big stage out there because my wins (as small as they may be) are similarly public.

I don't shoot for groups a whole lot anymore. The group bug has left me and shooting groups is just a means to an end for me. The end is a load that scores well for 22 shots after 66 shots were fired previously. I'll screen with 5 shot groups, then I'll test the promising ones with a couple of 10 round groups then I'll shoot a 20 round group before I take it to full distance at a practice match to make a final determination.

For the record I do shoot 3 shot groups with my hunting rifles...with a twist. I keep a composite target in my travel pelican and that 3 shoot group needs to stack on top of the previous 3 shot groups because I value stability of zero over a bug hole shooting rifle that put's em in a slightly different place each time.

...and just for fun's sake, I'll see if I can dig up some groups to share with ya'll.

Last edited by ChrisF; 05/04/21.
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Here we go.
Group 1; 10 shots50 yards, Federal GMM 22LR (rumored to be manufactured by RWS). Rifle: CLE AR 22 Conversion. Shot off the bench, through the irons.
I feel like the autoloading was an advantage because our range is notoriously windy with unpredictable gusts. There's been a few national level smallbore shooters who have vowed never to return because the wind brought them to their knees. With the AR22, I would wait for a condition and pump the rounds out as long as my condition was there. Clearly I got caught a little on a let off and a lot on a gust. I can read wind...but I can't predict the future.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Group 2; 10 shots50 yards, RWS R10 22LR (real RWS Match ammo shot as a comparison) Rifle; Same CLE AR 22 (Dogless barrel for Jeff's sake) , Bench and Irons.
Apologies for the poor pic...phone didn't focus too well up close;
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Group 3;
This sheet is me testing pellets for the junior rifle team I coach. Each group is 10 shots off the bench at 10M (33ft). I'm pretty sure McKenzie shot Lot 652 because I only write down the lot that tested out best on the target that I give to the shooter.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]





Last edited by ChrisF; 05/03/21.
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by Mike70560
Originally Posted by ChrisF
There’s much about shooting groups on this board but I got an amazing lesson in knowing your rifle/ammo capabilities and keeping things centered up.


It usually takes about three matches for me to be comfortable with my zeros when changing scopes/uppers. I shot at Oak Ridge this past weekend.


[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

That is both strings and sighters at 300, 22 shots total. This was my second match with a new upper. It was a good confirmation that my zero was 1/2 minute or so off. (I felt my NPA was slightly right of center). I shot a 195 with 5.



[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

Sunday we shot a Leg match, made the 1/2 minute change, NPA was a little better. 99-2X (I stuck a 9 way out on shot number 8, knew it when I let it go)

Keeping things centered up is important, and difficult.

This is the 300 yard target. The course of fire to start standing, load a magazine with 2 rounds on a closed bolt, targets up, 70 seconds to get in prone position with a sling, no rest, shoot two rounds, change magazines, shoot eight rounds. The ten ring is 7" diameter, so it is a little over 2 minute angle at 300 yards. Tough target with a sling, 4.5 power scope, 4.5 pound trigger, getting in position, mag changes, wind changes, NPA, etc. and in the EIC (Leg) matches you get no sighters.

I won the Leg Match, got a hard leg, only need four to go out.


What? You mean you don’t shoot that off a bench with a rifle rest and sandbags?? Don’t go confusing bsa with CMP rapid fire rules..

Edit- we had our first mid range match last week, and you could see the rust from the winter in alot of the scores. I didn’t shoot because I had to work.

When you figure out shooting is shooting, you'll be one step ahead of the game. As of right now, none of you cowboys have posted up any (let alone sub moa or moa) targets for the events started here in this forum. 79s tried, but nothing was even MOA, so he gave up. At least Rost had balls enough to shoot irons and post up a good score. Like I said, its all talk, unless you want to prove it. You are more than welcome to shoot those targets. Just sayin. Excuses are like azzholes too, "everyone has one".


lol.. oh boy.. you are still an alright fella.. you need a women and some firewater.

Last edited by 79S; 05/03/21.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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Originally Posted by ChrisF
bsa1917hunter,
Sorry there was a bit of jabs directed toward you following my post. That was certainly not the intent of my post. It was rather letting the score shooters know that with a skilled driver that understands how to center up and understand shot dispersion, even 55's and 62's can do more that what many think.

I've been around long enough to understand that folks have different reasons for shooting. You clearly like to wring out your rifle and ammo off the bench. Good for you for finding what you want out of your shooting. I was there at one time and wanted nothing more than to shoot little bitty groups. After a long while of chasing that down, I decided that I wanted more...Thanks to some team shooters, I was sold on position shooting with a sling as my next challenge. And challenge it was/is because I have terrible eyes. As difficult as it's been, I am strangely fulfilled when I succeed because of the depth of the hole that I started in. I was discussing with a friend what motivated us to compete and why many folk don't want to (not a jab pointed at you for the record). One reason we felt more folks didn't compete in highpower was the fear of public humbling. Your scores are tabulated, and your successes and failures are distributed very publicly (especially now a days in the internet era). Believe it or not...I like that.

Funny story (at my expense). One year competing at Camp Perry in the Presidents Match, I shot a good score at 200 Standing and a good score at 300 Prone Rapid. Unbeknownst to me, the CMP was updating the scores on their site in real time, so my friends back home were well aware of where I was in the ranking (better than I even, because I only knew my score but not everyone else's). Each of the 1500 or so competitors were vying to be one of the top 100 shooters to be part of the Presidents 100 and I apparently was well in the running after two of the three stages. Well, after the first 10 shots at 600, I was still in the running until I cross fired. I put a round on someone else's target which scores a big fat ZERO. Needless to say, I didn't make the Presidents 100 that year....and I caught a lot of grief when I got home. So much for my private misery... But you know, I'm still good with putting my scores on the big stage out there because my wins (as small as they may be) are similarly public.

I don't shoot for groups a whole lot anymore. The group bug has left me and shooting groups is just a means to an end for me. The end is a load that scores well for 22 shots after 66 shots were fired previously. I'll screen with 5 shot groups, then I'll test the promising ones with a couple of 10 round groups then I'll shoot a 20 round group before I take it to full distance at a practice match to make a final determination.

For the record I do shoot 3 shot groups with my hunting rifles...with a twist. I keep a composite target in my travel pelican and that 3 shoot group needs to stack on top of the previous 3 shot groups because I value stability of zero over a bug hole shooting rifle that put's em in a slightly different place each time.

...and just for fun's sake, I'll see if I can dig up some groups to share with ya'll.


I need to get more serious with service rifle. I really want to go to camp perry before I get to damn old. I really want to shoot the garand match their as well.

Last edited by 79S; 05/03/21.

Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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bsa1917hunter,
I see you're in Oregon...there were a couple of National Guard shooters that I believe were from Oregon...Allen Spiker and Nelson Shew. Would you have run across them?

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It's been interesting reading everyone's posts. My Bushy was $600 at time of purchase, & my PSA was $350 total. This is not including optics. What type rifles, component, & optics, or irons are you folks using?


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Originally Posted by Jiveturkey
It's been interesting reading everyone's posts. My Bushy was $600 at time of purchase, & my PSA was $350 total. This is not including optics. What type rifles, component, & optics, or irons are you folks using?


Lower:
Aero Precision (right hand)
White Oak Parts kit
Magpul UBR-1 Stock
Geissele HighSpeed National Match Trigger
Stock A1 pistol grip

Upper:
Either RedX or Stag Left Hand receiver
Shilen barrel 1-7.5 or Bartlein 1-7
Geissele MK 7 Quad Rail

Optics:
Geissele Super Precision mount
March 1 to 4.5 scope with MTR D3 reticle
Or
Leupold FX 4.5HD Service Rifle scope

And a Leather sling from Eric Hollis

All in around $3800 each set up.


Last edited by Mike70560; 05/04/21.
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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter

When you figure out shooting is shooting, you'll be one step ahead of the game. As of right now, none of you cowboys have posted up any (let alone sub moa or moa) targets for the events started here in this forum. 79s tried, but nothing was even MOA, so he gave up. At least Rost had balls enough to shoot irons and post up a good score. Like I said, its all talk, unless you want to prove it. You are more than welcome to shoot those targets. Just sayin. Excuses are like azzholes too, "everyone has one".


Barrel life is around 4000 rounds and if I shoot 10 of those rounds off the bench I would be surprised. Shooting off a rest at 100 yards tells me nothing. It does not help anything I do. Even though my rifles are sub minute I do not care if it shoots 3/8 minute or 5/8 minute. My time is much better spent working on position, learning to read the wind better, etc.

For [bleep] and giggle I posted this. Shot in prone off a sling. Two targets, 100 yards, picture of my gear.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...lack-rifle-challenge-thread#Post14611943


And this one 16 shots, all the ammo I had left. Shot in prone with a sling. 1.33 moa.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...lack-rifle-challenge-thread#Post12959243

For all you bench cowboys, sling up, get on the ground or even better on your feet with no sling, and see what shooting is all about.

At least the FClass guys have to be on the ground and shoot at least 600 yards.



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Nice looking setup. Does it balance well, or is it front heavy?


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It balances just forward of the mag well. I have lead in the compartment in the stock and in the quad rail.

Weighs around 14 to 15 pounds. It is definitely not a run and gun rifle.

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I was waiting for all the non-HP shooters to put up HP scores! laugh


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
I was waiting for all the non-HP shooters to put up HP scores! laugh


I always find it funny that HP cowgirls are so closed minded that they have to jump in and tell everyone else how good they are.

Everyone has their idea of what fun is, mine is shooting plates as fast as I can, could care less how big my "groups" are as long as the plates are ringing. But I like to shoot most anything. I've done my share of chasing the sub MOA groups, even shoot sometimes offhand in different positions, never tried a coat or a real sling. It's all good.

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Originally Posted by TWR
Originally Posted by Tyrone
I was waiting for all the non-HP shooters to put up HP scores! laugh


I always find it funny that HP cowgirls are so closed minded that they have to jump in and tell everyone else how good they are.

Everyone has their idea of what fun is, mine is shooting plates as fast as I can, could care less how big my "groups" are as long as the plates are ringing. But I like to shoot most anything. I've done my share of chasing the sub MOA groups, even shoot sometimes offhand in different positions, never tried a coat or a real sling. It's all good.


It is because we are the only true rifleman left in this world. grin

Seriously, I cant shoot a pistol very well and am not that good on the bench, but I do love shooting XTC high power.

If you think HP shooters are bad, never ask an old Bullseye Pistol shooter what he thinks about shooting steel.

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ChrisF--I enjoyed your P100 story. Back about 25 or so years ago, we had a HP HM here in Michigan named Butch. He had a crossfire in the P100 and still made it. IIRC--if it had been a 9 or 10 on his target, he would've either won it or been top 3. The man could hold. He used to wear what was known as his "heavy hat". It was an MRPA hat with his 8 or 9 P100 pins, his Distinguished pin and his 495 pin. Nice and humble, too.

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Quote
I always find it funny that HP cowgirls are so closed minded that they have to jump in and tell everyone else how good they are.

I think as a competitor, you have to have a certain amount of striving and need to be on top. Sometimes that leaks into conversations. For the record, I thought I was actually airing my failings. The others were sharing their strivings and process for getting there.

I'll say it again, if you enjoy a certain type of shooting - good for you. I even enjoy hearing about the different types. I'm not a "bang and clang" (term I just learned) shooter...but I suppose I was one as a kid because I begged my welder uncle to make me a T1 steel plate target. That was fun in a binary sense...you either hit it (clang...actually "whack") or you get silence.

UPhiker. Great story.

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Uphiker,

Guys like Butch are remarkable shooters, it is difficult to make the P100 once or twice much less multiple times. Since the match is only held once a year there is a lot of pressure to make that one chance count. Add in the fact the you shoot against all of the military team shooters, well you get the picture. Problem is now the cut is around 289 or 290. If you crossfire you are out. I shot the P100 in 2018, with a 99-5X at 600, 98-3X at 300, but those scores were easy because I blew my offhand, there was no pressure. Headed back in August for my fourth attempt.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
I was waiting for all the non-HP shooters to put up HP scores! laugh


Chit my hp scores are horrible, granted I’m getting better I’m in the middle of the pack these days. When I started I was at the bottom.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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Originally Posted by ChrisF
Quote
I always find it funny that HP cowgirls are so closed minded that they have to jump in and tell everyone else how good they are.

I think as a competitor, you have to have a certain amount of striving and need to be on top. Sometimes that leaks into conversations. For the record, I thought I was actually airing my failings. The others were sharing their strivings and process for getting there.

I'll say it again, if you enjoy a certain type of shooting - good for you. I even enjoy hearing about the different types. I'm not a "bang and clang" (term I just learned) shooter...but I suppose I was one as a kid because I begged my welder uncle to make me a T1 steel plate target. That was fun in a binary sense...you either hit it (clang...actually "whack") or you get silence.

UPhiker. Great story.


Our bang and clangs are shot out to 200 meters with rams as our 200 meter targets. We use cast bullets, guys like Ron shoot it because it’s all off hand shooting. No benches, shooting sticks etc.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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