Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 218 Bee. What's it good for?

If you think .218 Bee and .25-20WCF brass is hard to find and expensive, you haven't lived until you've worked with an old wildcat R2 Lovell (which pretty much duplicates .218 Bee performance). Brass is made from .25-20 Single Shot (not WCF), which was last made by a Big Name Company 70 years ago (but has popped up from time to time from boutique makers). Your Rifle Loony membership card must be up to date if you adopt one these - and I have three, built on a Winchester High Wall, '03 Springfield, and Krag-Jorgensen, not to mention an original Low Wall in .25-20 Single Shot. Thank God I have a goodly stash of brass, but am always nosing around for more. A .218 Bee would be a cakewalk in comparison.

I always threatened to build a .218 Bee on a Martini Cadet action, but never quite got around to it. The perfect platform for one, IMO.

.22 stuff in that level right below the .222 is godalmighty fun, even if you don't have a practical application for it.

I had a chance at an R2 Lovell on Krag action a few years back, thanks to a reader who had advanced cancer and wanted to give it to me. It would have included dies but no brass--but a little research turned up not only new .25-20 SS cases but Lovell cases, from Roberson Cartridge Company, which makes a bunch of older cases, and will make just about anything you want. Pricey, of course.

But before the guy could send me his rifle he passed away. He'd told his kid (who'd never shown any interest before) that it should go to me, but the kid e-mailed me and said it wasn't going my way.....

I have a .22 Hornet on a Martini Cadet action--actually a BSA .22 rimfire target rifle that was converted. It shoots VERY well, but somehow I've never even considered rechambering it to .218.

Yeah I'd leave it as a Hornet too, John. Thanks for the tip re: Roberson. Hadn't looked at their stuff in a while.

Rounds like the Hornet, Bee, and the Whatever/20s are very useful and pleasant rounds. The problem is not many engage in the type of hunting where they shine, and of course the dearth of stuff so chambered. Doesn’t help either that larger CF .22s and others are easily loaded down to duplicate their performance level. Feller could cover a lot of bases with something like a Henry SS in .223, .357, or even .30WCF and clever handloading, with dropping a fortune, but that runs against the trend of having a special rifle for every minutely defined pupose. JB has mentioned that notion a time or two I think, and maybe Wieland too.

I got into handloading at age 12 so that I could feed my 219 Zipper, 250-3000, and 7x57. Like Frost wrote; "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.". I could have taken the well worn road via the 223, 243, and 308 and accomplished the same things with a lot less hassle.

I've had Savage 23s in 25-20 and Hornet, both fun guns.

Shoot and smile...

If that's how you have fun

Friend's father had a Hornet when we were kids...said he chose that over the .222 because it was quieter. Then he went to a .25-06 as a varmint rifle...go figger. Anyway, he also picked up a Winchester 43 in .218 Bee. I can remember helping my buddy find ammo for it in the '70's.

As for me, I've always been a .25-20 fan. I became intrigued by the cartridge as a kid, when I found a couple of them in a tray on my father's desk. I don't know where they came from or why he had them, he never had such a rifle. Anyway, the little cartridges fascinated me. Years later, I passed on a 23 Savage because the bore was not good and a 92 Winchester because the price was too high. I finally got my .25-20, an 1894CL Marlin. I've never been able to get the accuracy I wanted to out of it, but it's been adequate. It's proven to be a wonderful killer of moderately large varmints: coons, porcupines and nuisance beaver. One beaver in particular stands out. It was about 125 -135 yards away across the water. I drilled it through a shoulder with the 75 grain Speer flat-nose and got a complete pass-though on a pretty large beaver. I would say that bullet penetrated 14 - 16 inches of beaver. It just rolled over, kicked a little bit and died.

I tried the 60 grain Hornady bullets, never got any accuracy. I used the 75 grain Speers, but eventually found the 86 grain Remingtons to be more accurate. A friend gave me a couple of boxes of old Remington .Hi-Speed 25-20 ammo with 60 grain Mushroom (Hollowpoint) bullets. I kept one box intact, but shot some of the others and every case would split at the neck.

My son has the Marlin currently and I will probably never get it back. If I still had the farm, a place to just walk around casually shoot stuff, I'd get it, but he seems as intrigued by the cartridge as I. Last time I was at his place in Missouri, we went down to Midway and picked up a hundred .32-20's to make .25-20's from as well as some commercial cast bullets made for it.

I've always felt that one of the Ruger .357 bolt guns rebarreled to .25-20 or .218 Bee would be the way to get the best out of them.

Thank you. I’m fairly new to 23s and didn’t know the time line. That clears it up.

Pennsylvania provided some interesting scenarios when I was a kid. Due to its then (and now) liberal definition of legal deer cartridges a couple adults I knew really pushed that envelope. One guy, an uncle, campaigned a scoped .22 Hornet Savage 340, and the other guy a Winchester .25-20 lever gun with iron sights. Both were products of the Depression and were pretty frugal, but they were hardheads too. Those guys always got their deer, and always bragged about their one shot kills. As a kid I was mostly impressed with the fact that there were dead deer hanging there and not too mindful of exactly where in their anatomy they were shot. The gentleman with the .25-20 carried the same gun that his Dad issued to him as a kid because they couldn't afford a second .30-30 in the family and the little Winchester was there.

Later, as a teenager, I was on hand for my uncle's loss of faith in the Hornet. He had to whack a small buck 4 or 5 times to kill it - the first time ever it had taken him more than one shot, or so he claimed. (Proof, as I came to realize in my pre-adolescent mind, of the importance of precise bullet placement when using a small cartridge.) Right then and there he swore off the Hornet that had served him well for a decade and a half, and marched out and bought himself a new .30-06. You guessed it, a Remington 760. What else would a hotshot PA hunter buy in the late 60's? Setting his old scope on the gun to match the short eye relief he was accustomed to on the Hornet he proceeded to split his eyebrow with the first shot. I learned a whole slew of new Pennsylvania Dutch swear words that day.

Wildatters started necking down the .25-20WCF in the late 20's-early 30's, when the .22 centerfire craze swept the land. Well, the Land of Loonies anyway. It seems every gun crank worth his salt had a wildcat of his design based on the .25-20, not to mention every other cartridge case known to mankind. I think the Big Companies were slow to "officially" adopt them for fear of it being a passing fad.

I've had two .25-20s, a Savage 23 with an excellent bore, and a Winchester 92 made in 1913. The Savage had been drilled and tapped for a scope, and it shot very well with the 60-grain Hornady flatnoses, around an inch at 100 with a charge of 2400 that got around 2100 fps. It reminded me a lot of a bigger .22 Rimfire Magnum when using the 40-grain Winchester JHP load.

The second was an octagon-barreled Winchester 92 made in 1913, which had a fairly rough bore. But I discovered that an application of Dyna Bore Coat allowed it to shoot pretty well, even with cast bullets. With the factory open sights it grouped 60 Hornadys and 75 Speers into around 2.5" at 100 yards, and 85-grain cast bullets into 3" or so. I can shoot a little better than that with open sights, but not much!

So I'm not certain whether it's worth keeping this 218 Bee around as I already have an lightweight AR 15 that is my 22cal centerfire goto. Since I'm not tied to the 218 Bee and if it's a PITA to load and aquire components for what about boring it out to something else? Maybe that's feasible?

It's a new in box old Browning repro so if there's some mods to it I'm not killing Winchester collector value. I really like the stock and lever on these better than the standard 92's.

I have a 2R Lovell on a Winchester Model 54. It is a dandy rifle, and loading for it introduced me to a “higher level” of reloading activities such as fitted necks. It is the first centerfire rifle I killed a groundhog with. I remember looking in amazement at the damage created by a 45 grain Hornady soft point fired from that rifle.

Great memories with a grand cartridge.

My 218 Bee is a Ruger #1. I’ve not had it long. Did shoot some PDs with it. I’d feel comfortable shooting a coyote 100 or so yards.

If you’re not in love with the rifle I’d sell it to someone who will use it. The Brownings don’t have the collector value of a Winchester but they ain’t cheap and getting more valuable every year. Reboring to 25-20 would make a cool little rifle but even harder to find components to load. Going to 32-20 is a reasonable option. Lots of brass and bullet options but the end product would have much less resale value than the original.

I haven’t found the 218 to be a problem to load. Yes brass is a bit hard to find but it’s out there. A hundred rounds would keep it shooting for years. There seem to be a fair number of Speer 46 grain FPs available. I know this will get me flamed but I’ve loaded the 45 grain Hornet bullets in mine a lot. I think the chance of an issue with them going off in the tube magazine is statistically zero. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a documented incident of a round going off in a tubular magazine. Anecdotal yes. Someone’s brother in law’s, dentist’s, postman’s, step sister’s, uncle’s nephew had it happen.

No flaming here. I think you're right. In well over a half-century of gunnery I've never heard of a chain fire in a magazine tube. Not saying it never happened or couldn't happen but with a low recoil cartridge like the .218 or .25-20WCF I would opine that it ain't very bloody likely to happen. After all, the one bullet point that would be most likely to detonate a primer in front of it would be a FMJ spitzer, and how many folks load them in a .218 Bee?

I figure they were Americas answer to a garden pest gun.

I have a Ruger #1 218 Bee. It's very accurate and one of my favorite cartridges. I have shot ground squirrels, prarie dogs, jack rabbits, rock chucks, badgers and coyotes with it. I killed one Wyoming coyote with a 35 gr, v-max at 176 yds. It dropped right in it's tracks and never knew what hit it. Another coyote at 26 yds. with a 40 gr. v-max. I use Lil' Gun powder with the 40 gr. v-max and get over 3000 fps. Anybody that thinks a 218 isn't a good varmint cartridge has never shot and used one much. Give it a chance, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Theoldpinecricker: I have a pair of Rifles in caliber 218 Bee.
I love to Hunt small game and Varmints with them.
One is a Kimber of Oregon Model 82-B and the other is a beautifully stocked Ruger #1-B.
There is very little recoil (none?) and both Rifles are very pleasingly accurate.
It's economical to reload for and brass seems to last forever.
I have a "left handed" friend that Hunted Varmints (Coyotes, Prairie Dogs and Rock Chucks) for years with his Browning Model 65 lever action Rifle in caliber 218 Bee.
He loved that gun.
In fact on Friday (December 10th) at the Bozeman, Montana gunshow, there was an unfired, new in the box, Browning Model 65 in 218 Bee for sale!
I am not sure if it sold over the weekend or not - but I drooled on it on Friday?
I would NOT hesitate to take a poke at a Coyote from either of my 218 Bee's out to 300 yards (6x18 Leupold on the #1-B and a 4x12 Leupold on the Kimber).
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy