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He used that rifle as a professional hunter for decades. The most interesting part of that article to me was the part where Harry stated that he intended fro the 416 to simply be a stop gap measure until he could acquire another 470. After using the 416 and experiencing its performance he never felt the need to get another 470
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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He used that rifle as a professional hunter for decades. The most interesting part of that article to me was the part where Harry stated that he intended fro the 416 to simply be a stop gap measure until he could acquire another 470. After using the 416 and experiencing its performance he never felt the need to get another 470
Yest but he story gets more interesting when you consider he used a model 70 push feed .458 for a stop gap when the .416 was bei8ng rebarreled and like it so much he sold the .416 and kept using the .458. It is ok to be happy where you are but that doesn't mean you are as satisfied as you can be. When you start backtracking your preferences, that is when you are on the mark. Ultimately, as a seasoned professional, Harry could use what ever he wanted and in the end, the .458 was it. JW
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Campfire Ranger
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He used that rifle as a professional hunter for decades. The most interesting part of that article to me was the part where Harry stated that he intended fro the 416 to simply be a stop gap measure until he could acquire another 470. After using the 416 and experiencing its performance he never felt the need to get another 470
Yest but he story gets more interesting when you consider he used a model 70 push feed .458 for a stop gap when the .416 was bei8ng rebarreled and like it so much he sold the .416 and kept using the .458. It is ok to be happy where you are but that doesn't mean you are as satisfied as you can be. When you start backtracking your preferences, that is when you are on the mark. Ultimately, as a seasoned professional, Harry could use what ever he wanted and in the end, the .458 was it. JW Harry never claimed the 458 to be better than his 416, but the money offered for the 416 was to good to pass up and I would have done the same same Harry has PM'd a friend of his on AR to post the story of his 416 when a question about it arose. Harry said that the 416 had all of the stopping power one could ever need and was flat enough for 300 yards shots on fleeing game wounded by clients No fly's on the 416 at all
I estimate that over a fifty five year career I have used .470s for four
years and a .458 for maybe six to eight years.
The Rigby .416 was always my weapon of choice and if I was to start
a hunting career all over again the first rifle I would acquire would be a
Rigby .416.
Last edited by jwp475; 12/19/10.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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The entire post --------------------------------------------------------------- Link to thread; http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/9561097831?r=6591010931#6591010931 BaxterB
one of us
Posted Aug 25, 8:58 AM Hide Post
In response to the many questions raised by Harry's first response to this post, I culled out as many questions as I could from the text, added a few that I thought might come up on a second round and Harry was gracious enough to answer them (plus others) in a final post about this, in what I consider great detail.
As you will see, he spent an awful lot of time clearing up things in regards to this rifle and has settled the 'controversy' over Rigby's turn-around time in regards to the work they did on his 416.
We all owe Harry a debt of gratitude for taking the time to respond. Thanks Harry!
Once again, Harry Selby....
"I did err is stating that the accident to the .470 happened in 1950/51....
just a slip up... after all we are talking about sixty years ago.... it
should have read 1949/50 I think. I took Bob and Harriet Maytag and Bob and
Ginny Ruark in 1951....using the Rigby .416. In the latter part of that year
I went to the States and eventually Kodiak Island where I shot a Kodiak
bear.
Rigby was in no way to blame for the delay in getting the .416 Rigby back to
me.... they accomplished the job... rebarreling (barrel from Austria) and a
complete stock refurbish in good time. (by that time there was no blueing
left on the metalparts and the stock finish was all gone) (See Pic of three
Selby Rifles)
When Rigby's tried to ship the rifle back to me a woman in the government
department responsible to imports / exports blankly refused to issue an
export permit as the rifle would pass through South Africa and there was
an embargo on all arms to SA at that time...
Telling her that it was destined for Botswana cut no ice (I am sure she was
just plain 'Anti Hunting') (I even produced a letter from the Botswana
police to the effect that the rifle was registered in Botswana.... no luck)
Eventually Paul Roberts went over her head to the minister and got the
export permit sorted out. It did not take three years as has been
claimed..
I am not left handed... I do everything right handed except that I shoot
from my left shoulder...maybe my left eye is the 'master eye'.
Cycling the bolt was no big deal, I merely lowered the stock slightly,
gripping the pistol grip with my left hand and with my right hand worked the
bolt.... fast enough... in any case I prefer one or two precisely aimed
shot to a fusilade of random rapid fire
I have always thought of the magazine held four cartridges... maybe my
memory played tricks on me!!! but when Rigby did the work on the rifle they
replaced the original magazine follower which was much shorter than the box with a
full length one....It was more robust and heavier as well...I think it came from
a Brno 602 action.... maybe this prevented Layne Simpson closing the bolt
over four cartridges.
Maybe I also realised this when the rifle came back from Rigby'
but have forgotten about it.
I will refer this to a gunsmith friend of mine for his opinion.
The inscription on the mag. plate was done by Rigby at that time of
re-barreling and the date 1949 was either the date the rifle was despatched
or perhaps the date it was entered on my Firearms Certificate in Nairobi.
I seem to recollect that Paul Roberts said he would use the date it left
Rigby's.
The .458 did me well enough but to even suggest that I had become attached
to it and sold the Rigby .416 as a result is laughable... it is
like comparing chalk and cheese.
I sold the Rigby .416 as I was approaching the time I would plan to retire
and the Rigby was offered a very good home by a client and his wife with
whom I had been on safari a number of times and had become close personal
friends.
I preferred to do it that way rather than have the possibility of the rifle
winding up under some auctioneer's hammer one day!!!!
I have done the same with some of my other rifles.... sold them to old
clients who have become close friends over the years.Movement of firearms is becoming more restrictive in most parts of Africa
and I preferred to see my precious rifles in good homes elsewhere.
It took a whole year to get an 'in-transit permit' for another rifle of mine to
pass through South Africa a while back.(less than 12 hours in SA)
If I remember correctly the rifle was sent to Rigby's sometime in the early
eighty's and I immediately began using the Rigby as soon as it came back.
One of the safaris I did with it was John Wootters '.416 Safari' in
1987.. John Wootters, Jack Carter (of Trophy Bonded bullets) and Paul
Roberts of Rigby's were testing Jack's TB ammo. on Buffalo. We had in camp
two Rigby .416s... Pauls's and mine. one .416 Hoffman (Jack's) and John
Wootters' .416 Taylor. (Petersen's Hunting August 1988 by Wootters.)
I also took the Rigby to Tanzania ( Maswa, Moiowase, Ugalla, Monduli)
for a four week safari with TGTS later (I forget the year ) and due to the
chaotic customs handling of rifles at the Nairobi Airport lost it for over a
month...eventually it turned up in Maun ...intact.... fortunately.
Incidentally as soon as.416 bullets became available I had no further ammo
worries.... I was getting fairly low until that happened though.
By turning the belts off ..460 and .378 Weatherby cases, resizing them
carefully and then fire forming. ....they worked well enough.
When factory loaded Rigby 416 ammo became available I usually chose
Federal although I used mainly hand loads.
Remember a PH does not use a lot of ammo.... hopefully..... so a couple of
boxes lasted a while.
I just like the feel of a broad trigger and by adding the shoe suited me
well..
I did the same to some of my other rifles. I never used a sling. it can get
one entangled in the bush. I carry a rifle over my right shoulder gripping
the barrel in my right hand.
I estimate that over a fifty five year career I have used .470s for four
years and a .458 for maybe six to eight years.
The Rigby .416 was always my weapon of choice and if I was to start
a hunting career all over again the first rifle I would acquire would be a
Rigby .416.P.S. Layne Simpson's article described the rifle well but it contained many
inaccuracies which I am sure did not originate with Joe Coogan...
he would have known better.
I did not start my career with Ker & Downey Safaris. I started with
Percival and 'African Guides"
Donald Ker was using a Dodge Power Wagon not a Land Rover when he ran
over my .470.
I did not rush back to Nairobi for another rifle, the safari was
just about over anyway and on its way back to Nairobi.
Gunbearer Kidogo was recommended to Ruark not by Hemingway but by an
American by the name of Russel Aitkin who had hunted with Frank Bowman.
Layne also claimed that I never used the rifle again after its return to
Botswana
NOT SO I used it for a number of years. He mentions the bluing worn off the
barrel.....that wear took place after it came back to Botswana chasing buffalo and
tracking lions.
P.P.S.
To conclude I might mention that after I had used to Rigby .416 for a couple
of years and came to appreciate its qualities I decided to do something about the
dimensions of the stock to suit my desire for a very powerful but handy rifle
for my purpose as a professional hunter.
To me the stock was a bit bulky, especially in the forend area and pistol grip
(I really like a slender pistol grip).
Being handy with tools I very carefully shaved the stock down in the areas I
considered 'bulky' until I came up with what I considered just right for me.
The recoil was lively but I could not give a fig about that... I wanted a very
powerful rifle I could swing like a twenty gauge. So infact the stock dimensions
of this rifle probably differ from any rifles coming direct from the Rigby shop.
Naturally all chequering was removed and not having the skill or the tools
to re-chequer I merely gave the carefully sanded and filled surface a good oil finish
The stock remained thus for a number of years ... (see pic of Selbys rifles on safari)
until I moved south and an excellent gunsmith in South Africa rechequered the stock
for me.
When Rigby worked on the rifle, they cleaned up the chequering again and worked
on the overall stock finish in addition to a complete re-bluing job.
I apologise for the rather lengthy response hopefully covering all queries.... in-fact I feel rather like a baboon being debugged by the rest of the troop."
PICS
Harry's rifles on safari left to right .Rigby .416 (notice lack of checkering on stock -bb) , Win mod.70 .375 H&H (stock Westley Richards)
Win. 243 Stock Hal Hartley. Brno .22 long rifle (stock worked on by Selby)
Wootters safari hunting buffalo with Jack Carter ( Selby carrying .Rigby .416)
Last edited by jwp475; 12/19/10.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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jwp: Good post...very good reading 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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416's seem like good balance of power, penetration, and recoil. the .375 below it, is flat shooting and good for dangerous game, but lacks the stopping power of it's larger cousins the .458 lott, .505 gibbs etc. The 416 has slightly more stopping power than the 375, but not as brutal recoil as the lott, which is good because it lets you get a better follow up shots faster. IT's a good middle ground.. which is why I will buy the ruger alaskan in .416 ruger. 20" barrel, stainless/synthetic, can't beat it for real world hunting
Jeszcze Polska nie zginela kiedy my zyjemy,co nam obca przemoc wziela szabla odbierzemy.
Bog, Honor, Ojczyzna
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And you are spot on. The 416 can even shoot almost as flat as a 375 and it has great penetration as well. Another big time elephant hunter and PH, Tony Sanchez Arino also used a 416 extensively. For a client it is THE ideal DG cartridge from lion to elephant. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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And you are spot on. The 416 can even shoot almost as flat as a 375 and it has great penetration as well. Another big time elephant hunter and PH, Tony Sanchez Arino also used a 416 extensively. For a client it is THE ideal DG cartridge from lion to elephant. jorge I'm sure it has some stopping power too, without the severe jump of the .458 lott or bigger guns. I wonder which penetrates better the lott or the rigby
Jeszcze Polska nie zginela kiedy my zyjemy,co nam obca przemoc wziela szabla odbierzemy.
Bog, Honor, Ojczyzna
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I think the Rigby but if you go to the links I posted you can find the penetration tests on just about any caliber you want.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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New Member
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Wondering if there is a big difference in stopping power between the two. The reason i'm asking is I'm considering buying a 416 ruger, but I also like the .458 win mag because of more ammo availability and more bullet choices for reloading.. however the .416 ruger has flatter trajectory and probably better penetration because it is a smaller caliber... am I right or wrong? But the .458 seems like it would be better close up stopper. The problem with the .458 is that I can't seem to find a rifle under $1000 that is synthetic and stainless steel with express sights with a short barrel. The .416 ruger is nice because I can get the ruger m77 hawkeye alaskan... which is a nice gun and for $800 it's affordable. All depends on what you is goin to kill...Both calibers you mention are good stoppers. IMO If it can eat you, stomp you in the ground, or a combination of both you want the biggest caliber you can shoot well under stress. For me my Ruger Safari Magnum 458 Lott would be the choice. Regards
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Both calibers have their merits. The .458 can be loaded with 400gr bullets and give the same ballistics as the .416! I've used my model 70 .458 for 16 years as an african PH and have shot everything from impala and jackals to Buff and Elephant with it without a hitch. Don't sweat about choosing either one...they both have enough 'knockdown' power. But nothing beats a well placed shot so get the one you can handle best and quickest!
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Campfire Tracker
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Both calibers have their merits. The .458 can be loaded with 400gr bullets and give the same ballistics as the .416! I've used my model 70 .458 for 16 years as an african PH and have shot everything from impala and jackals to Buff and Elephant with it without a hitch. Don't sweat about choosing either one...they both have enough 'knockdown' power. But nothing beats a well placed shot so get the one you can handle best and quickest! Do I detect apoplexy and convulsions within the readership?? Dhugaboy, Welcome to the fire. I fully concur with your review. John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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