Thinking about a long range specific hunter. Main use would be deer in ag fields but could consider elk in the equation, ~800 yards max hunting range, fair amount of shooting to 1000. 24" barrel, non-suppressed. Would likely be using eldx bullets in either...143 and 175. Don't factor brass/bullet/component availability in right now.... Edited to add: action would be either mid for 6.5 or long for 7 so don't factor it in...mainly just thinking on the two rounds, not the build.
So thinking hard on them with the considerations of wind drift and barrel life being two of the biggest considerations.....what's your pro/con on each of the two?
Last edited by JCMCUBIC; 11/16/22. Reason: throw build parts out of equation...just the rounds...
Bullets matter more than headstamps. I'd want Rem 700 COAL and the ability to Smooch magfed .838BC 190 Beer Cans,which is a breeze mechanically. Hint.
Had a couple visiting pards out the other day and as per usual,my crummy was wooded with Exceptional Wares. Went through the gamut in Real World conditions(rain/haze/fog/snow/wind),beating wind calls into heads,while they mutherfhuqked their Geovids. So after they were going to build this and going to build that,I unlimbered n OEM Big Green 24" 7mm RemMag with 2950fps 180's at 1710yds and turned them loose. That .796 BC projectile in a "schit" Factory Rifle,STOLE The Show,though such things can go NO other way. I never even fired the rifle,to put The Dazzle on. Hint.(grin)
Barrels are fhuqking cheap and a simple boolit swap,can make a guy MUCH better in the wind,by mechanical default. A Factory PRC 143 at 2960fps drifts 63.5" at 1000yds,arriving at 1615fps. The above 180 launched at the cited 2950fps,drifts 46.7" in the same 10MPH full value atmosphere and only arrives at 1860fps. Hint.
Bullets,bullets and bullets...roughly in that order. Hint..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Bullets matter more than headstamps. I'd want Rem 700 COAL and the ability to Smooch magfed .838BC 190 Beer Cans,which is a breeze mechanically. Hint.
Had a couple visiting pards out the other day and as per usual,my crummy was wooded with Exceptional Wares. Went through the gamut in Real World conditions(rain/haze/fog/snow/wind),beating wind calls into heads,while they mutherfhuqked their Geovids. So after they were going to build this and going to build that,I unlimbered n OEM Big Green 24" 7mm RemMag with 2950fps 180's at 1710yds and turned them loose. That .796 BC projectile in a "schit" Factory Rifle,STOLE The Show,though such things can go NO other way. I never even fired the rifle,to put The Dazzle on. Hint.(grin)
Barrels are fhuqking cheap and a simple boolit swap,can make a guy MUCH better in the wind,by mechanical default. A Factory PRC 143 at 2960fps drifts 63.5" at 1000yds,arriving at 1615fps. The above 180 launched at the cited 2950fps,drifts 46.7" in the same 10MPH full value atmosphere and only arrives at 1860fps. Hint.
Bullets,bullets and bullets...roughly in that order. Hint..................
Fantastic post ! saving for future reference ...
See Stick, u can do it ! (write legibly)
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
Thinking about a long range specific hunter. Main use would be deer in ag fields but could consider elk in the equation, ~800 yards max hunting range, fair amount of shooting to 1000. 24" barrel, non-suppressed. Would likely be using eldx bullets in either...143 and 175. Don't factor brass/bullet/component availability in right now.... Edited to add: action would be either mid for 6.5 or long for 7 so don't factor it in...mainly just thinking on the two rounds, not the build.
So thinking hard on them with the considerations of wind drift and barrel life being two of the biggest considerations.....what's your pro/con on each of the two?
Barrel life is probably going to be fairly similar between the two. In my mind, the pros of each are:
7PRC pros - superior ballistics
6.5PRC pros - a bit less recoil - a bit less powder consumption - slightly shorter rifle (if that matters here)
Between the two, if I'm thinking long-range specific, it's 7PRC all the way.
Stick, I know you mention and shoot the .284" 180's lot's. Have you ran many through critters and if so what kind ? Wondering how they do killing stuff. Thanks
Stick, I know you mention and shoot the .284" 180's lot's. Have you ran many through critters and if so what kind ? Wondering how they do killing stuff. Thanks
Yeah that's not gonna happen.
For reference I might have killed a critter or 2 with .284 180gr VLDS.
The bullets work fine.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
Stick, I know you mention and shoot the .284" 180's lot's. Have you ran many through critters and if so what kind ? Wondering how they do killing stuff. Thanks
Yeah that's not gonna happen.
For reference I might have killed a critter or 2 with .284 180gr VLDS.
The bullets work fine.
I shoot various grain VLDs , however Stick is shooting Hornadys. That was the 180 is question. Thanks
7mm is going to be ~10 more grains powder, ~the same fps, and have a touch less drift....and a bit more azz when it gets there.
I was making the assumption that the barrel life was going to be about the same between the 2....more powder in the 7 being offset by the difference in bore size. As mentioned, either way, it can be replaced.
It's not like either is a bad option. More input's welcome. Thanks.
I only shoot said 180's in 7-08,7-08AI,7 Whizzum,280 and 7mm RemMag...multiple rifles all. Hint.
They will out dig a 162 'Max/ELD and obviously fly quite a bit better,due vastly superior BC. That means broken bones and exits. Hint.
Boogers are far to zooky for me. Hint.
I'll take the very nice percentage in less wind drift,day in and day out,along with the greater loss of impact velocity. Such things tend to skew connect ratios and bolster terminal effects,in Real World atmospherics. While I love the 147 ELD and it's easy to scoot right along,the 180 ELD is a whole 'nother can of warm/fuzzy and it ain't even close. Hint.
A Yellow Lab of that size,must have a hell of a time with even a Mallard. Likely good riddance. Hint.
Just sayin'..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Bullets,bullets and bullets are what matter. Hint.
It is easy to scoot .838 BC's at nice velocities in .284" bore sizing,with 190grs of mass. To surpass same in .308 or .338,etc,simply means more recoil,even if you could arrange to exceed it's performance,in that far less handy parcel. Hint.
If/when talking true Utility Rifles and felt recoil to performance ratios,the .284" bore size has long stood alone and by goodly margins. None of that has changed,as of Today and my first cup of coffee this morning. I can't speak to what tomorrow will bring,but rather like the "odds",that the .284" is gonna be the cream of the crop. It's never not advanced,at the head of the pack. Hint.
It would defy Physics,to launch .338" 285 ELD's and their .829 BC at like speeds,at like case capacity,as 7mm 180's. But alas...that simply ain't in the cards,nor close. Reality,is a handy place to reside...much to the chagrin of Texans the World over. Hint.
Just sayin'..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
And yet the vast majority of game animals are shot well within the range of the average 308. Yes there are many cartridges with talent far beyond that but generally most of us are or could be happy with cartridges designed in the 1960's,how nice bullets have evolved. This year I am mostly shooting a muzzleloader and a couple of 35 caliber cartridges.
NOTHING is fhuqking funnier,than a fhuqking Texan trying to "talk" rifles,via her Vagina Monologue. Hint.
I enjoy how they "magically" transform into a "we",when extolling their Hurt Feeler Reports and simply can't begin to fhuqking fathom that their "abilities" aren't the bane of all. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I only shoot said 180's in 7-08,7-08AI,7 Whizzum,280 and 7mm RemMag...multiple rifles all. Hint.
They will out dig a 162 'Max/ELD and obviously fly quite a bit better,due vastly superior BC. That means broken bones and exits. Hint.
Boogers are far to zooky for me. Hint.
I'll take the very nice percentage in less wind drift,day in and day out,along with the greater loss of impact velocity. Such things tend to skew connect ratios and bolster terminal effects,in Real World atmospherics. While I love the 147 ELD and it's easy to scoot right along,the 180 ELD is a whole 'nother can of warm/fuzzy and it ain't even close. Hint.
A Yellow Lab of that size,must have a hell of a time with even a Mallard. Likely good riddance. Hint.
Just sayin'..............
So, as I said, you have no information on 180s and game.
Well now you can say you have seen some game shot with .284 180s.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint.
You keep extolling the "virtues" of your Professional Victim Status. Hint.
Perhaps cite how many times a day you think about me and the durations of same,if only to put your vicarious "living" in context?!? Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint.
You keep extolling the "virtues" of your Professional Victim Status. Hint.
Perhaps cite how many times a day you think about me and the durations of same,if only to put your vicarious "living" in context?!? Hint.
Then reiterate how your wares are soooooo fhuqking "good",that they are draped in Pancho Villa ammo belts. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint.
You keep extolling the "virtues" of your Professional Victim Status. Hint.
Perhaps cite how many times a day you think about me and the durations of same,if only to put your vicarious "living" in context?!? Hint.
Then reiterate how your wares are soooooo fhuqking "good",that they are draped in Pancho Villa ammo belts. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint.
You keep extolling the "virtues" of your Professional Victim Status. Hint.
Perhaps cite how many times a day you think about me and the durations of same,if only to put your vicarious "living" in context?!? Hint.
Then reiterate how your wares are soooooo fhuqking "good",that they are draped in Pancho Villa ammo belts. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint.
You keep extolling the "virtues" of your Professional Victim Status. Hint.
Perhaps cite how many times a day you think about me and the durations of same,if only to put your vicarious "living" in context?!? Hint.
Then reiterate how your wares are soooooo fhuqking "good",that they are draped in Pancho Villa ammo belts. That while you clamor mightily,to include me in your HILARIOUS "we-titude". Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it as you MUST. Hint.
You keep extolling the "virtues" of your Professional Victim Status. Hint.
Perhaps cite how many times a day you think about me and the durations of same,if only to put your vicarious "living" in context?!? Hint.
Then reiterate how your wares are soooooo fhuqking "good",that they are draped in Pancho Villa ammo belts. That while you clamor mightily,to include me in your HILARIOUS "we-titude". Hint.
Then for THE "Win",Link this Thread on "your" site,to convey the uncanny "prowess" of "your" wares. Perhaps offer a Black Friday Poncho Villa Ammo Belt,for those who "order" "quick"?!? Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Stick, I know you mention and shoot the .284" 180's lot's. Have you ran many through critters and if so what kind ? Wondering how they do killing stuff. Thanks
Stick, I know you mention and shoot the .284" 180's lot's. Have you ran many through critters and if so what kind ? Wondering how they do killing stuff. Thanks
Up for a second look.
I reckon if Lil Fish comes back you are going to get round 2 of this.
He has never seen nor killed anything at LR with a 7mm or a 6.5mm or any caliber.
That's a fact.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
Ask a simple question and the thread goes off the rails per normal.
It's too bad you guys can't play nice.
It's the 'fire...it was a given at some point. Most of the input was along my original line of thought.
I'm throwing those 2 puny rounds aside and going 28 Nosler. Only input needed is more powder. ...grin...
I like it.
But, to me, the proper answer would be build all three. Sure there's overlap and, really, one round of the type that's been stated in this thread can just about do it all, but then, where's the fun in that?
As I've seen stated before: I'm a big proponent of diversity, especially in my gun safe.
It’s pretty much the same discussion 60 or so years ago with 264 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag with technology baked in. Both were fast, one throws heavier bullets and was easier on barrels. Today with two great case designs and exceptional bullet designs, the barrel life argument is moot. The 7PRC simply has more horsepower just like the argument 60 years ago and will outperform on heavier game animals at extreme range (700+ yards). At 600 yards on game the size of elk the 6.5PRC is a fine choice. With game in the 400lbs range and alpine hunting, the 6.5PRC can be easier to use on recoil, rifle weight and use a shorter barrel length. Shooting elk and moose at extreme distance (700-800 yards) would favor the 7PRC, shooting elk and moose at 600 yards on down would still favor the 7PRC for horsepower, but the 6.5PRC would suffice nicely. For smaller game at any distance the 6.5PRC is about ideal. It all just depends on how you intend to utilize either and what you intend to spend most of your time hunting in the field. Shooting paper requires little stress in a predetermined controlled environment, shooting game at extreme distances is anything but.
But, to me, the proper answer would be build all three. Sure there's overlap and, really, one round of the type that's been stated in this thread can just about do it all, but then, where's the fun in that?
As I've seen stated before: I'm a big proponent of diversity, especially in my gun safe.
That's what I did !
I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
Stick, I know you mention and shoot the .284" 180's lot's. Have you ran many through critters and if so what kind ? Wondering how they do killing stuff. Thanks
I've used the 208 eldm out of a 300 win mag at 2900 fps muzzle velocity. At 500 yards it was magic on elk. At 100 yards it was sketchy marginal on a big mule deer. Bullet evaporated. I'd for sure not want to take a shoulder shot on an elk up close with a 208 eldm. Perhaps the 180 is a toupher bullet but I doubt it! I'd guess if your shooting critters beyond 300 yards every time it may be a good way to go
Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies. Tryin not to step on my Dick since 1975…
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
Just a random question, but how does the belt hurt anything? I agree, it isn't needed, but if you load the case the same way you'd load a 7 PRC how would it ever hurt/hinder anything?
I would agree for the most part that the 7mm Rem Mag can stay with the 7PRC ballistically if it is not constrained. Magazine length is only one of the constraints, the others are what any stock/factory 7mm Rem Mag would have to deal with and that is throating and barrel twist rate. Many COAL in the 7mm Rem Mag could be restrictive in throwing high BC 180, 190 and 195 grain bullets. Mine is a Howa (circa 1998) that will kiss at 3.392”. Pulling back at 0.010” I can load length at 3.382”, which is fairly generous. My magazine length is 3.560”, so my throat is the governing factor in lieu of the magazine length as well as my barrel twist rate at 1-9.5. The 7PRC is already designed and compensated for all three of the constraints above for shooting long, heavy .284 bullets.
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
You're an idiot. It's called "headspace." It ensures that your gun will fire, and safely. It certainly had a purpose, and that belt still serves the same purpose.
You should be bitching at the guys who kept repurposing the H&H base case for every new "magnum" they wanted to peddle to the masses.
Belts are nowhere in proximity to "control" headspace,but it's a warm bottle bedside notion,for you Fhuqktards. Hint.
Bless your poor poor(literally) heart for TRYING though.
Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
You're an idiot. It's called "headspace." It ensures that your gun will fire, and safely. It certainly had a purpose, and that belt still serves the same purpose.
You should be bitching at the guys who kept repurposing the H&H base case for every new "magnum" they wanted to peddle to the masses.
Can't you headspace off the shoulder after 1 fire form and adjust your FL die accordingly??
Also, doesn't the 7 mag have a history of pressure spikes hence the SAAMI 61K PSI??
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
You're an idiot. It's called "headspace." It ensures that your gun will fire, and safely. It certainly had a purpose, and that belt still serves the same purpose.
You should be bitching at the guys who kept repurposing the H&H base case for every new "magnum" they wanted to peddle to the masses.
Can't you headspace off the shoulder after 1 fire form and adjust your FL die accordingly??
Also, doesn't the 7 mag have a history of pressure spikes hence the SAAMI 61K PSI??
You certainly can headspace off the shoulder now. But the belted case was made during a time when machining tolerances were sloppier, where there was a lot of variation between chambers, and when handloading didn't exist in remotely the same fashion. The belt insured the gun would fire, and safely. Thus my comment about the belt's seeming necessity in the past. But in modern guns shooting sharper-shouldered cartridges, it isn't serving any purpose, except that the belted case was sold as synonymous with "magnum" to a few generations of hunters.
Thinking about a long range specific hunter. Main use would be deer in ag fields but could consider elk in the equation, ~800 yards max hunting range, fair amount of shooting to 1000. 24" barrel, non-suppressed. Would likely be using eldx bullets in either...143 and 175. Don't factor brass/bullet/component availability in right now.... Edited to add: action would be either mid for 6.5 or long for 7 so don't factor it in...mainly just thinking on the two rounds, not the build.
So thinking hard on them with the considerations of wind drift and barrel life being two of the biggest considerations.....what's your pro/con on each of the two?
For that application, I would go for the 7. Can't cheat mechanics.
I'm already invested in the 6.5, both Kreed and Prick, so I'll stay there for economics. Besides, in FL a 300 yds shot is considered "long-range".
My neck has large patches of skin from my thigh and enough nerve damage from surgeries that recoil makes a difference. Besides that ,all else being equal, everyone shoots a 243 better that a .338
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
You're an idiot. It's called "headspace." It ensures that your gun will fire, and safely. It certainly had a purpose, and that belt still serves the same purpose.
You should be bitching at the guys who kept repurposing the H&H base case for every new "magnum" they wanted to peddle to the masses.
Can't you headspace off the shoulder after 1 fire form and adjust your FL die accordingly??
Also, doesn't the 7 mag have a history of pressure spikes hence the SAAMI 61K PSI??
I believe that pressure spikes in cases like the 7mm mag came from the time when IMR4350 and powders like H205 were popular in them. With powders like H1000 and Imr 7977 a 7 mm rem acts like most other cartridges......
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
Just a random question, but how does the belt hurt anything? I agree, it isn't needed, but if you load the case the same way you'd load a 7 PRC how would it ever hurt/hinder anything?
Beretz, the main benefit of the PRC and Creedmoor rounds is chamber and die specs. There is a noticeable advantage to minimal working of brass that shows up biggly in the long run. Why put a useless belt on a cartridge and than design it to maximum size your brass everytime?
Last edited by Trystan; 11/21/22.
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
Thinking about a long range specific hunter. Main use would be deer in ag fields but could consider elk in the equation, ~800 yards max hunting range, fair amount of shooting to 1000. 24" barrel, non-suppressed. Would likely be using eldx bullets in either...143 and 175. Don't factor brass/bullet/component availability in right now.... Edited to add: action would be either mid for 6.5 or long for 7 so don't factor it in...mainly just thinking on the two rounds, not the build.
So thinking hard on them with the considerations of wind drift and barrel life being two of the biggest considerations.....what's your pro/con on each of the two?
For wind drift advantages and just a little more bullet on target I would go with the 7mm myself, others may prefer something different
180 Berger's at 2900 fps Longest shot was right at 1/4 mile on the springbok.
330-350 (I think)...I would have to go back and check
Under 200
325 yards
200-300 yards...Just don't remember
490 yards (Back about 11 years ago)
666 yards: 200 grain VLD at the upper 2800 fps
I have not used the 180 grain ELD-M on game, but I have used the 175 grain ELD-X, but nothing at long range. All under 400 yards. [img]https://i.imgur.com/54yu89al.jpg[/img]
Mr Camuglia, Do you use muzzle brakes or suppressors on your rifles?
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”. Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Originally posted by Brad.
I can't see a 7 PRC doing anything the 7mm Remington hasn't been doing for decades. Plenty of mag space in a 700 for the Remmy and 180/195 grain bullets. Plenty of brass, dies, factory ammo. I'll happily slum a 7 Remington if I feel the need.
For now a rather pedestrian 6.5-284 is working for my long range needs. And oh, not a lot the 6.5-284 can't do compared to a 6.5 PRC. But I digress.
I'll happily take the 7PRC strictly for reloading purposes of getting around the belt that they put on then 7 rem mag. Whoever invented that belt that serves zero purpose should be kicked in the nuts IMO
Just a random question, but how does the belt hurt anything? I agree, it isn't needed, but if you load the case the same way you'd load a 7 PRC how would it ever hurt/hinder anything?
Beretz, the main benefit of the PRC and Creedmoor rounds is chamber and die specs. There is a noticeable advantage to minimal working of brass that shows up biggly in the long run. Why put a useless belt on a cartridge and than design it to maximum size your brass everytime?
Chamber & die specs ? The truth is the PRC cartridges have been plagued with this very problem, Hornady .. in their infinite wisdom royally screwed the PRC's up from the very beginning, but fanboi's avoid the obvious and are now doing all they can to "invent" problems with the older cartridges, namely the belt ... every creediot on the planet is now an expert on the belt "issue", citing how great an advancement the PRC's and Creeds are over every existing cartridge ever developed ...
I've been handloading the 7mm Rem Mag for over 30 years and have never experienced any problems with the belt or any sort of pressure spiking conditions, that bs is more of an idiot operator error than anything else .....
With that said, I'm no fan of the 7mm RM, as it is underpowered for my use, so that makes the PRC's grossly underpowered ...
or simply, just gross !
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".
I tend to use 140 VLD and 156 EOL. The 6.5-284 can push both to reasonable speeds for my long distance hunting needs.
Thanks, 30338. That 140 seems to have a great reputation for extremely consistent BC. And I've heard from more than a few people that the 156 kills better than the 180 Horny and 180 Berger.
My neck has large patches of skin from my thigh and enough nerve damage from surgeries that recoil makes a difference. Besides that ,all else being equal, everyone shoots a 243 better that a .338
Man that sucks, regarding the nerve damage. Sorry to hear that.
I think that I have a pretty high tolerance for recoil but agree that less recoil is easier to control and for self spotting impacts. I have three kids and something like a 180 at 3000 from a 6-8 pound rifle isn't my idea of a good tool for learning. In fact, I haven't seen many adults shoot a 6-8 pound rifle well, let alone spot their own impacts. No brakes on hunting rifles.
On a side note, I was spotting and filming for a recent ELR match and a bunch of shooters were not able to spot impacts in Light Gun past a mile with brakes and cans. Weight limit was 26 pounds, and you probably have an idea on TOF.
If recoil is of zero concern, a 7mm x 180 gr vld at lotsa fps is unbeatable IMO. But not required to kill stuff at 750 yards. But the 6.5 is easier to shoot well. Barrel life will never be a design factor to me. Another upside is the current golden era of 6.5 and 7mm bullets. And optics 😊
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
After finally using both the Scenar and ELDX at longer ranges on elk, my conclusion is that the Berger is better if one wants a frangible bullet. It will definitely penetrate before blowing up. If one wants more weight retention, shoot something else. Basing this conclusion on one elk per bullet, each shot in the chest. A thin sample, which is why I’m just sharing a personal conclusion. Shoot what you want.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
My neck has large patches of skin from my thigh and enough nerve damage from surgeries that recoil makes a difference. Besides that ,all else being equal, everyone shoots a 243 better that a .338
Man that sucks, regarding the nerve damage. Sorry to hear that.
I think that I have a pretty high tolerance for recoil but agree that less recoil is easier to control and for self spotting impacts. I have three kids and something like a 180 at 3000 from a 6-8 pound rifle isn't my idea of a good tool for learning. In fact, I haven't seen many adults shoot a 6-8 pound rifle well, let alone spot their own impacts. No brakes on hunting rifles.
On a side note, I was spotting and filming for a recent ELR match and a bunch of shooters were not able to spot impacts in Light Gun past a mile with brakes and cans. Weight limit was 26 pounds, and you probably have an idea on TOF.
Not a kid, and won’t be shooting a180 grain bullet x 3000 fps in a 6 or 7 lb rifle😊 8 maybe. No fun.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
Yeah, in my experience a 180 at 3000 from a 6 - 8 pound rifle will highlight flaws in shooting form and rest building. Doesn't matter if the 180 is from a magnum 7 or a magnum 300. And it definitely affects the ability of the shooter to spot impacts for most.
Some can pull it off, but I think that they are more rare than common.
All of those things vary. I have a handful of rifles that vary in weight and chamberings.
Your shooting technique factors in as well; how well you can manage recoil
Spotting impacts in some shooting positions is difficult.
The bottom line is reducing recoil and jump and a brake does that well. I have brakes on just about every rifle, match or hunting
Schitfire, Ric. So I take it that it means that you use a HEAVY rifle + BRAKE?
Come on man, I totally respect your shooting accomplishments. Nobody can take that away from you, but what the hell do homosexuals and recoil have to do with anything when you are using a brake and heavy rifles? You can do better this.
All of those things vary. I have a handful of rifles that vary in weight and chamberings.
Your shooting technique factors in as well; how well you can manage recoil
Spotting impacts in some shooting positions is difficult.
The bottom line is reducing recoil and jump and a brake does that well. I have brakes on just about every rifle, match or hunting
Schitfire, Ric. So I take it that it means that you use a HEAVY rifle + BRAKE?
Come on man, I totally respect your shooting accomplishments. Nobody can take that away from you, but what the hell do homosexuals and recoil have to do with anything when you are using a brake and heavy rifles? You can do better this.
Jason
My light rifles have brakes
My heavier rifles have brakes.
What’s so Fuqking hard to understand?
Better now?
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Ernie, what can you tell me about the tripod setup you have in this photo? It looks like something I would be very interested in. And just how many single shot pistols do you own? I'm green with envy over here!
Selmer
"Daddy, can you sometime maybe please go shoot a water buffalo so we can have that for supper? Please? And can I come along? Does it taste like deer?" - my 3-year old daughter
Ernie, what can you tell me about the tripod setup you have in this photo? It looks like something I would be very interested in. And just how many single shot pistols do you own? I'm green with envy over here!
Bog Gear with their PSR top. They don’t make it any more Sorry
Does that mean that you are a F A G for using brakes and heavy rifles?
By the way, what are those rifle weights, chamberings, and distances that you can spot impacts?
Being smart enough to use a brake isn’t because your tiny, frail stick shoulder hurts from recoil, it’s because you want to see impacts.
Do you understand why seeing your impacts is important?
Ric, I think that we are actually on the same page regarding spotting impacts. My preference is less recoil and lighter rifles with no brakes. Your approach seems to be brakes and heavy rifles. I have started using a can though.
Originally Posted by 4th_point
As much as I like the idea of a 7 RM or 7 PRC for hunting, I think the 6.5 will do all that I need with a lot less recoil than any magnum 7.
Ric, I think that we are actually on the same page regarding spotting impacts. My preference is less recoil and lighter rifles with no brakes. Your approach seems to be brakes and heavy rifles. I have started using a can though.
That’s not my approach at all. I have brakes on my light rifles as well.
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
When is enough, enough? 6.5 PRC ? 7 PRC ? 300 PRC?? What's coming next the 45 PRC, 50 PRC ? Rio7
Originally Posted by RIO7
When is enough, enough? 6.5 PRC ? 7 PRC ? 300 PRC?? What's coming next the 45 PRC, 50 PRC ? Rio7
I think the dif is recoil. If a 7mm x 180 grain at 2950 fps is not too much recoil, it’s the optimum. Does not matter what launches them. I mean without a break.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
Also, said rifle is not too heavy. For a hunting rig, everybody’s gotta find their compromise between power and portability. For me it’s the Tikka. Stronger folk carry bigger guns.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
Ric, I think that we are actually on the same page regarding spotting impacts. My preference is less recoil and lighter rifles with no brakes. Your approach seems to be brakes and heavy rifles. I have started using a can though.
That’s not my approach at all. I have brakes on my light rifles as well.
Thinking about a long range specific hunter. Main use would be deer in ag fields but could consider elk in the equation, ~800 yards max hunting range, fair amount of shooting to 1000. 24" barrel, non-suppressed. Would likely be using eldx bullets in either...143 and 175. Don't factor brass/bullet/component availability in right now.... Edited to add: action would be either mid for 6.5 or long for 7 so don't factor it in...mainly just thinking on the two rounds, not the build.
So thinking hard on them with the considerations of wind drift and barrel life being two of the biggest considerations.....what's your pro/con on each of the two?
Sorry to sidetrack your thread earlier.
FWIW, rumor has it that Peterson will be making brass in Jan/Feb.
Well, spill your guts for cryin’ out loud before Burns comes back and starts hanging ancient pics again…
Lol…
I know they may have been before your time, but they act much like the 162 AMaxes with a skosh more BC and you ain’t gotta worry bout the tips melting. Grin…
Haha, good enough for me…. I haven’t launched a 162 since Obama was in office…. Looking forward to seeing how the Montana 7 WSM likes an ELD. Barrel break in coming soon.
If building a rifle dedicated for bean field shooting I’d keep recoil down and go with non magnum on std length .473” bolt. I’d be looking at 6.5-284 Norma or a finely tuned and throated 284 Win. Set up properly you’d have a lower recoiling, easy carrying, flat shooting, wind bucking chamber. I think a properly set up 284 Win would be a one gun affair for all your hunting needs. Lapua makes quality 284 Win brass now as this chamber is now being used at 1,000 yard competitions and is quite impressive with speed and accuracy. The 6.5-284 Norma is already a proven winner. Just a thought and alternative to a magnum.
Yeah just read the list (about 15 or so chambers) of suspended brass. Lots of popular competition and other brass suspended due to Ukraine war demands, back logs and supply chain problems. Said they will be back on line with suspended brass when things lighten up.
Having owned several 300 WMs and currently own two 7mm RMs, I think the 7mm PRC is the best of both worlds. 180 projectiles have a higher BC in the 7mm, the case is a "modern design" (sans belt, less taper, sharper shoulder, caliber length neck) and is well suited for longer bullets. I can't imagine a better Rocky Mountain Mule deer / Elk cartridge.
I'm thinking a .270-6.5 PRC using 140 Bulldozers. Recoil very similar to 6.5 PRC with 143 ELDX, .650 bc, 50-80 fps faster, greater frontal area, Remington 700 short action, 7lb weight including scope. Or the .277 150 Bulldozers with .710 bc at 3050 fps using the .270 WSM case. I can get 4 in the mag easily with the .270-6.5 PRC case, but can't get the first of the 4 rounds to feed right, the other 3 feed good. Three WSM rounds feed good.
Having owned several 300 WMs and currently own two 7mm RMs, I think the 7mm PRC is the best of both worlds. 180 projectiles have a higher BC in the 7mm, the case is a "modern design" (sans belt, less taper, sharper shoulder, caliber length neck) and is well suited for longer bullets. I can't imagine a better Rocky Mountain Mule deer / Elk cartridge.
This is how I'm seeing the 7 prc. The other prc rounds are almost too long for most actions. The 7 leaves you plenty of room in most LA actions. I like the shoulder angle and the belt less design along with the tighter throating specs and faster twist barrels. I was thinking a anTi action and a 22" 8 twist fluted #4 brux before defiance raised their prices $600. Mag have to go back to an origin even though the top isn't as open as I like. At least they can eject flat instead of into my windage turret and back in the action.
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