Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Another Bear Stopping Thread

I have been to a few of Johns seminars years ago. They were very enlightening for sure.

One of the things I came away with is that most of us seem to feel the need to carry a lot more gun than we need, or can handle. Especially when it comes to handguns. A 500, 475, 454 etc. may be comforting, but a body needs a hell of a lot of practice and experience to accurately shoot a gun in that class even with moderate loads. How many can actually say they have that kind of experience?

It has been proven that lesser cartridges can do the job. I have the choice of a number of heavy hitters, but more times than not a 44 special will be on my hip (or chest) loaded with 260 grn Keith style bullets at around 1050 fps. I really do love the truly big bores, but after packing them around, They are most of the time relegated to hunting duty. The Ruger flattop I carry is lighter and a trimmer package, and I can get it in play and make follow up shots just a bit quicker than I can with bigger guns.

Just my 2 cents.

Byron

During several conversations with John, he told me the same…..which he has proven. That said, I’m running my 400’s (cast) from my 460 pretty warm…..to flatten the trajectory a bit at my maximum hunting shot range. I just hope that I don’t need a real quick follow-up shot….though if I do, the target should be closer and a bit easier to hit! 😉 memtb

I've always figured it takes a helluva man to pack one of those things and get it into play in a hurry. Me not being a big man, I prefer something lighter. A 400 grain 45 calibre should give a body all the penetration one needs.

That has been the thinking behind me leaving my .44 mag behind and typically carrying a .45 Super with 255 LFN GCs at 1050 fps. It's just easier to shoot accurately, and those 255s will dig in.

Couple of bear stopping episodes. I am not good for story telling sorry.

I lived remote in AK as a kid. I carried a short 44 mag super Blackhawk shooting 300+ gr at full tilt. I was charged at short range by a black bear for unknown reasons and I shot at point blank range. I was soooo slow out of the holster with that gun, thumbed it back and fired. I missed. I took a hit and went down. He overran me, wheeled around and then took off to my left as if he was scared? I don’t know but he gave me enough time to shoot again.

Second bear with problem. I stalked in the middle of the stream because the bear was in the brush up the bank and around the bend. When I rounded the corner bear was 20 yards. Dark and scrunched up looking back the bear was not at the angle I thought and I raked bear behind the ribs into the gut with a 458win mage 510 gr sp. The bear immediately charged and my second shot broke neck/shoulder into the chest. Again I got hit but bear was carcass .

2 dogs later as well, I would rather have the speed to draw and fire with low to moderate recoil.

Maybe don't smoke (so much) pot. Grin.

As to the op. Well, I have a lot to say, but I'll abbreviate.

I don't think a handgun is an overly heavy thing to carry. They can be downright handy when you're up to your armpits in moose guts and your rifle is not on you.

Only hits count, and not all of those do the job. I haven't seen a lot of big bore sixgun shooters with quick and accurate follow up shots. Especially shots 6 and up from that group are slow This is where I feel cartridges like the 10mm come into play. They allow even us average folk to shoot relatively quickly and relatively accurately while producing decent penetration. Not 460 penetration, but certainly faster than 460 follow up shots, and I think if we're being honest better than 460 accuracy on shots after the first. Add 15 round mags and quick reloads to the equation and things skew more in their favor.

I also kind of think the 458 socom has promise (as would the 450 bushmaster were there better bullets available) . If you can approximate 45/70 performance in a semi auto, with reasonably short barrel length, I see that as a win. Again, add 10 round capacity and removable mags to the equation and all the better. I will likely give this a shot as a camp defense weapon and something for the berry pickers to carry while we're out doing stupid things.

A couple years back, the moose camp across the river had company. They shot a sow and two 2 year old bears that were stealing meat off the meat pole in the middle of the night. I helped them drag the sow back to camp and she had a perfect 12 gauge hole 1" above the eyes and perfectly centered between them in the forehead. She went 20+ yards from where she was shot. That stuck with me.

I wouldn't shy away from hunting a bear with a big bore pistol, but I think they make a rather poor defensive weapon against the same animal. So I guess.... Another borough heard from.

Guy I fished with in AK was a retired Trooper. He used a 458 Win Mag to dispatch bears when he had to. He said it worked well on Grizzly and Browns. It was standing in the corner by his recliner.

The gun you have is criteria 1. Getting it into the fight is 2. Shooting it well enough is 3. Bullet able to penetrate vitals from the front makes all the above work. Without that you’re just making noise.
Pistol criteria starts with 356-358 flat nosed 158+cast at 900+ out of your pistol. I wonder what Phil’s chrono-Ed at?
If I know I am going to have to stop something in the pucker bushes then my 458wm is going with me.
If it’s a lovely day for a stroll along the salmon stream with a picnic basket, then a 629 5” loaded with fn cast 310’s at 1100 will be along for the trip.
Or my old beat up stainless Taurus 66 4” 357 with fn 172’s at 1100.
Since I don’t live or play in big bear country, regrettably, the reason the Taurus is old and beat up is that it is most often available, accurate and capable for the 2 legged predators I am most likely to encounter.

Excellent post!

500 S&W Mag 700 grain hard cast at 1238 fps via LILGUN.

I hear that the recoil is surprisingly mild! 🥴 memtb

Not really LOL

shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.

I definitely disagree with that.

A ridiculously heavy and long bullet that may penetrate like you think.it will. 500 Nitro's shoot 570 grain bullets

Can you expand on that?

Except every time this subject comes up, guys with a large amount of experience with bears come on with evidence that shotguns really aren’t that great. Buckshot isn’t a reliable performer and only certain slugs can be counted on. They’re less handy than a pistol even when equipped with a pistol grip which almost no one can shoot with any accuracy. A rifle is a far more effective tool.

No way am I relying on shot to get through heavy hair and having energy to get deep and kill fast. Plus it is going to expand very little if any at all, minimal energy transfer, the .33 caliber pellets aren't very heavy.

Yeah, I know there is 000 which probably works fine as long as everything goes smooth but if it were going smooth you wouldn't be in the situation to defend yourself.

At least with a large caliber rifle you can break bones that bullet is capable of breaking several in one shot.

Never been in bear country but I can see something in .33 or larger and an 18-20" barrel being mighty handy.

I'm not an expert on this, but, if I was going with a longarm for bear defense, I would, for example, pick my .308 AR10 over a 12-gauge every time. I've shot deer with both 12-gauge slugs and 168-gr lead bullets, and in those limited instances, I found that each .308 round did more damage. And, with the AR10, the .308 recoils a lot less, and accurate follow-up shots would be way faster.


When I first went to hunt in AK, I ignored some advice not to bother to bring a handgun, and I personally am glad I did. I just didn't find it practical to have my rifle (or a shotgun, if I had had one) in the ready position at all times when doing various things, including skinning animals; relieving myself at camp; etc. ...

On my first AK hunt, I carried my FA .454 with 360gr HC rounds with a MV near 1,800 fps.



That may be a good option, but, on my second trip, I felt more confident with my 10mm G20 with a 6" bbl (didn't have my G40 yet) with 200gr HC bullets going about 1,315 fps. I know that may seem crazy to some, but I just can get my first shot off quicker with that and I can fire it accurately at around three-rounds per second for however many seconds the bear, or God, gives me, which I can't (myself) do with the .454.

FWIW, this bear jumped forward about 15 feet when hit by my .375 Wby with a 300gr NP before then dying instantly.



That round blew up much of his insides before exiting. So, I suppose, no matter what you hit them with, they can still release a lot of energy after being hit with just about anything.

A rather large inland grizzly was long ago bonked with a couple shots to the bean with a 22 long.