I prefer big bore handguns unless given the rifle option. Those of you that choose the 454, 460 or maybe the 500 S&W(guessing here as I am not familiar with that one) might want to consider lower pressure loads. One shot out of a 454 in a shoot now situation and I am deaf above 6K hz. There is a CONSTANT chorus of crickets in my ears as well. Running a heavier bullet at slower vels and lower pressure will save your hearing. I don't need to read from the crowd that says I would rather be alive and deaf than... . While that is true, being alive and not deaf, is always better. Talk (yell) to a cop who had to discharge his 357 inside of a car, to find out that I am not kidding. I consider my 475 Linebaugh at 1250 fps as good as it gets. Because I don't practice with a single action much, I usually carry a Redhawk 45 Colt at 1250 fps. I have carried a Dan Wesson 44 mag at 1250 fps a good bit. Since I lost most of my hearing the 44 mag is out - I don't want to loose any more. It is a pressure thing that makes the bark sharp and does the damage. Another one not mentioned here, but will take your hearing is a 357 Max. Shoot straight and HEAR to tell about it!!
Some is Good---More is Better----Too Much is Just Right
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
No way am I relying on shot to get through heavy hair and having energy to get deep and kill fast. Plus it is going to expand very little if any at all, minimal energy transfer, the .33 caliber pellets aren't very heavy.
Yeah, I know there is 000 which probably works fine as long as everything goes smooth but if it were going smooth you wouldn't be in the situation to defend yourself.
At least with a large caliber rifle you can break bones that bullet is capable of breaking several in one shot.
Never been in bear country but I can see something in .33 or larger and an 18-20" barrel being mighty handy.
I have been in bear country and have taken a few, with a rifle, and mostly because they were in the wrong spot at the wrong time.
If I am hunting I am carrying a rifle and a hand cannon of some sort, typically mdl 29 in a chest rig. If I am on shore fishing walking etc, I would be carrying a pistol and possibly a shotgun if I am particularly concerned about bears. Usally I am not.
Regarding shotgun vs pistol, I would contend the shotgun is more effective, just considering shot placement, in other words I would prefer some double ought hit the bear, rather than a miss with a handgun, which is often likely, bear attacks are fast and I would consider someone lucky if they got off two shots before the bear was on em, they can be seriously sneaky bastards...
Typically alternate between slugs and double ought.
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
No way am I relying on shot to get through heavy hair and having energy to get deep and kill fast. Plus it is going to expand very little if any at all, minimal energy transfer, the .33 caliber pellets aren't very heavy.
Yeah, I know there is 000 which probably works fine as long as everything goes smooth but if it were going smooth you wouldn't be in the situation to defend yourself.
At least with a large caliber rifle you can break bones that bullet is capable of breaking several in one shot.
Never been in bear country but I can see something in .33 or larger and an 18-20" barrel being mighty handy.
So, safe to say you have never been charged by a bear, as you have never been in bear country, yet somehow feel qualified to dispense advice?
Never said it was advice. Said if I were in bear country.
A lot of things I would do if I were I certain areas but doesn't make me any kind of expert or giver of any advice. Merely things that I would be comfortable with.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 02/08/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
I'm not an expert on this, but, if I was going with a longarm for bear defense, I would, for example, pick my .308 AR10 over a 12-gauge every time. I've shot deer with both 12-gauge slugs and 168-gr lead bullets, and in those limited instances, I found that each .308 round did more damage. And, with the AR10, the .308 recoils a lot less, and accurate follow-up shots would be way faster.
When I first went to hunt in AK, I ignored some advice not to bother to bring a handgun, and I personally am glad I did. I just didn't find it practical to have my rifle (or a shotgun, if I had had one) in the ready position at all times when doing various things, including skinning animals; relieving myself at camp; etc. ...
On my first AK hunt, I carried my FA .454 with 360gr HC rounds with a MV near 1,800 fps.
That may be a good option, but, on my second trip, I felt more confident with my 10mm G20 with a 6" bbl (didn't have my G40 yet) with 200gr HC bullets going about 1,315 fps. I know that may seem crazy to some, but I just can get my first shot off quicker with that and I can fire it accurately at around three-rounds per second for however many seconds the bear, or God, gives me, which I can't (myself) do with the .454.
FWIW, this bear jumped forward about 15 feet when hit by my .375 Wby with a 300gr NP before then dying instantly.
That round blew up much of his insides before exiting. So, I suppose, no matter what you hit them with, they can still release a lot of energy after being hit with just about anything.
AR 10 is heavy, maybe heavier than a pump shotgun... regardless, follow up shots on bear attacks are usally wishful thinking, one might get another opportunity to hit some fur, but I wouldn't call it a follow up shot.
I think a 10mm is a great option, if I didn't already have a 44, that's would be my choice
On my first trip to AK on an outfitted hunt, one of the pilots that flew us was a member of the "bear bait" club. His story happened while he was working as a bear guard for a surveyor crew and he carried a shotgun as his primary weapon of choice. A call came in that one of the surveyors had found what was described as a wolf den. As the guy working as bear guard approached the "wolf" den, momma bear came out and he got one shot off before she had him pinned face down. Chewed on him a bit and bounced up and down on him a bit, then she wondered off about 100 yards and died.
So, if a guy only has time to get one shot off, better make it count.
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
Sure, besides a 600 gr Brenneke, lack of penetration with common slugs and buckshot. Shoot a plain Foster slug out and you can split one even in a deer. In Alaska you always run into some dip$hit that tells you about alternating slugs and buckshot for bears as if it was some sort of “formula” for success. Anything low recoiling and penetrative would work. If it was pumps and levers I’d rather have a 44 lever 250 at 1100-1200 fps. Or even a bolt 308 over a 12 gauge. With bears of course it’s a choose your own adventure, people have both succeeded and failed in all circumstances… hiding, fighting back, this gun and that.
There is a reason a 12 gauge slug gun is popular with bear guides
Not sure which guides you’re talking about but I guess that would fall into the category of what a PH in Africa or an Elk guide in Idaho would know about rifle cartridges and projectiles… not much. Cept maybe Phil and a few others. You can certainly use a 12 gauge but it’s probably one of the $hittiest ways of getting something done with the given recoil.
AR 10 is heavy, maybe heavier than a pump shotgun... regardless, follow up shots on bear attacks are usally wishful thinking, one might get another opportunity to hit some fur, but I wouldn't call it a follow up shot.
I think a 10mm is a great option, if I didn't already have a 44, that's would be my choice
My AR10 is about a pound lighter than most--a DPMS GII Hunter.
Phil Shoemaker killed a brown bear boar by emptying an entire 9mm into the bear. I'm not a personal expert, but it seems like follow-up shots are possible in some instances.
AR 10 is heavy, maybe heavier than a pump shotgun... regardless, follow up shots on bear attacks are usally wishful thinking, one might get another opportunity to hit some fur, but I wouldn't call it a follow up shot.
I think a 10mm is a great option, if I didn't already have a 44, that's would be my choice
My AR10 is about a pound lighter than most--a DPMS GII Hunter.
Phil Shoemaker killed a brown bear boar by emptying an entire 9mm into the bear. I'm not a personal expert, but it seems like follow-up shots are possible in some instances.
That was one well known story regarding a experienced guide, not a typical example, keep trying though
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
Sure, besides a 600 gr Brenneke, lack of penetration with common slugs and buckshot. Shoot a plain Foster slug out and you can split one even in a deer. In Alaska you always run into some dip$hit that tells you about alternating slugs and buckshot for bears as if it was some sort of “formula” for success. Anything low recoiling and penetrative would work. If it was pumps and levers I’d rather have a 44 lever 250 at 1100-1200 fps. Or even a bolt 308 over a 12 gauge. With bears of course it’s a choose your own adventure, people have both succeeded and failed in all circumstances… hiding, fighting back, this gun and that.
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
Sure, besides a 600 gr Brenneke, lack of penetration with common slugs and buckshot. Shoot a plain Foster slug out and you can split one even in a deer. In Alaska you always run into some dip$hit that tells you about alternating slugs and buckshot for bears as if it was some sort of “formula” for success. Anything low recoiling and penetrative would work. If it was pumps and levers I’d rather have a 44 lever 250 at 1100-1200 fps. Or even a bolt 308 over a 12 gauge. With bears of course it’s a choose your own adventure, people have both succeeded and failed in all circumstances… hiding, fighting back, this gun and that.
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
Sure, besides a 600 gr Brenneke, lack of penetration with common slugs and buckshot. Shoot a plain Foster slug out and you can split one even in a deer. In Alaska you always run into some dip$hit that tells you about alternating slugs and buckshot for bears as if it was some sort of “formula” for success. Anything low recoiling and penetrative would work. If it was pumps and levers I’d rather have a 44 lever 250 at 1100-1200 fps. Or even a bolt 308 over a 12 gauge. With bears of course it’s a choose your own adventure, people have both succeeded and failed in all circumstances… hiding, fighting back, this gun and that.
Ever heard of hardcast....
Lol
What’s the point of this?
Obviously you don't get it... think hard, take a deep breath & watch it again, then think some more. Dont be that dipstick in ideho that thinks Alaskans that use slugs/double ought are dip schits.
That was one well known story regarding a experienced guide, not a typical example, keep trying though
No. I'm not trying anything. I've now heard from the "Garden Island" man. Your opinion is the gold standard. I'm a Marine War Veteran. I completely defer to you as to whether I, or anyone else, other than a particular guide, can fire a semi-auto rifle or handgun rapidly at a target under pressure when their life is threatened. Thank you for your wisdom!!!! Just to confirm my absolute faith in your complete knowledge of all things bear related, what is your basis for that? I mean, just to be sure, which I mostly am. I don't doubt your omnipotence in all things. I just want to reinforce it so that I can tell all I know with credibility about the bear-defense prophet and all of his knowledge about how what cannot be done, including firing a second round into a bear about 1/5th of a second after the first shot. I adore your knowledge and unbelievable style in your advocacy thereof.
shotgun has always been a great defense gun against man or bear tuff to beat.
I definitely disagree with that.
Can you expand on that?
Sure, besides a 600 gr Brenneke, lack of penetration with common slugs and buckshot. Shoot a plain Foster slug out and you can split one even in a deer. In Alaska you always run into some dip$hit that tells you about alternating slugs and buckshot for bears as if it was some sort of “formula” for success. Anything low recoiling and penetrative would work. If it was pumps and levers I’d rather have a 44 lever 250 at 1100-1200 fps. Or even a bolt 308 over a 12 gauge. With bears of course it’s a choose your own adventure, people have both succeeded and failed in all circumstances… hiding, fighting back, this gun and that.
Ever heard of hardcast....
Lol
What’s the point of this?
Yeah I was expecting the 45-70 to do much better than it did
In bear country, I worry about shooting high if charged.
I was watching a video by a British Columbia hunting guide who was addressing that very subject. He explained how that was more usual than not, "shooting high" against a charging bear.
He said he advises hunters who find themselves in that situation, to immediately drop to one knee, putting the hunter's head and rifle at the same level as the charging bear's head and chest and then firing. He claims that is very effective.
FWIW.
L.W.
I would have to agree. Add in there heavier weight bullets tend to shoot higher.
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