Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Bear creek arsenal. Any good?

My first ever post in the AR forum. Needing an opinion.

I have an AR in the A2 configuration, Armalite lower with an M-16 upper. Looking for something that would give me a bit more accuracy. Looking at buying a complete upper assembly with the same 20” barrel, sight, etc.

Bear creek offers several of this type @ 20”. $349 with a 1/8” twist. $379 with a heavy barrel 1/7”, $399 with the same but a billet upper.


Leaning towards the heavy, billet at $399.

Any feedback on Bear Creek I’d need to know about? Thanks in advance. I’m not looking at a bench rest quality combination…..just something that would outperform the M-16 configuration.

I see Bear Creek has gotten into the hammer forging business as well. I would buy this before the other. A lot of folks don’t like bear creek. I have one and it shoots fine for what it is and what I paid for it.

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/556-20-bn-government-barrel-1-8-twist-rifle-std-rc-a2-m14.html

J, do you think the one he's asking about would be more accurate than what he already has? I'm also wondering how his rifle actually shoots and what ammo he's tried in it. I have had and seen many HBAR's shoot lights out. I'm sure you have seen the same thing. Those older Bushmasters, Colts, and even Oly Arms even shot well. It is my understanding that you shoot those high power rifle shoots with all the NRA rules and such. What have you seen? Some of the old guys I shoot with served in Vietnam, but they love their old A2's. Most use Colts, and the others I listed. One was a gunny sgt that shot at Quantico. Another bad assed old guy a retired Air Borne Ranger. Most guys served in the military, and they know how to shoot those rifles. Having some experience with the Windham Weaponry barrels, I would also consider an upper from them. Again, I'm wondering what the real world results would be with the cheap upper the OP is asking about? Have you seen anyone in your shooting circuit/world use them??? I also believe he's wanting an A2 configuration. Would it be better to buy a really good barrel, A2 upper receiver and run that? Or would you suggest he buys an A4 upper, so he can scope it and evaluate the accuracy/precision and then switch back to irons. Just to be sure it's the rifle and not the shooter causing this "poor accuracy"..

Godogs57, what ammo have you tried and what kind of accuracy do you typically get with your rifle. What upper do you actually have?? Colt, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms etc. etc...

All very good questions Lawrence, hardly anyone is shooting AR15’s with irons in NRA/CMP high power matches. One of our last holdouts a high master traded his irons in for a 1-4.5 scope last year. So to answer one of your questions I would run a A4 so one can run an optic. Our club had 6 rock river NM AR15 we sold them and they were hard to sell even at $600 because these were the old school A2 I know of at least 2 that were converted to A4’s. No one in our shooting group uses bear creek anything. Most are using complete uppers or barrels from WOA. I’m odd man out I use Bison Armory barrels now. Also anymore it’s getting harder to find barrels cut for the F block. Seems everyone has gone A4 route with float tubes. In the world of high power everyone seems to gravitate to what’s working that’s why WOA is very predominant. Load data everyone is using Varget/RL15, those combos are winning at Nationals. If someone showed up to nationals with a bear creek upper, ammo loaded with staBALL and won it all. Then everyone would be buying bear creek uppers/barrels using staBALL. One last note shooting irons is becoming somewhat of a lost art. One other thing that wasn’t touched on what trigger is he using? If it’s milspec then that can be part of the inaccuracy he’s experiencing. Right now those larue mbt on sale for $89 buck.

Thank you very much for the informative answer to my questions. In the back of my mind I'm thinking WOA as well, but that's to win matches and I believe the op is mainly looking for something that is more accurate out of the box than his current set up. It still blows my mind, wondering why his rifle is not shooting well. Maybe it's worn out? But that is hard to do with those chrome lined barrels. You really have to try hard to do that. You are right, shooting irons is somewhat a "lost art". Man that is a shame too!!! I imagine if someone doesn't have a lot of experience with an AR rifle, it could be a reason they are not shooting it well. Guys like Montanaman have said shooting an AR is different than shooting a bolt action, and sometimes harder to get used to. He's right. Also guys like Rost here have probably forgotten more than a lot of us know about shooting these rifles with irons. Not that he's old, just experienced. These AR's take some getting used to, but once you find what works, stick with that. Your suggestion about a better trigger is a good one. Even one of my favorite triggers is usually only $79 over at Right to Bear Arms. Hopefully Godogs57 will take the info that you provided in your post and use it. He might be an awesome shooter with irons and an AR, but what I've seen is a lot are not. Then they assume there is something wrong with their rifle. Maybe he will answer some of the questions I asked, so maybe it helps us understand what he's really working with..

Hey Lawrence. Hope you’re doing well. This is a standard M-16 upper, Colt. It is not the HBAR heavy barrel. Standard weight. I get 4” or so groups at 100 but honestly I haven’t tried many loads yet to see how it’ll do. Shot 75 grain BTHP match and both Varget and 15. Oh, 3” groups or so at 100 and that was it. I’m just figuring I could probably do better.

I wonder if you got a 1-9 twist barrel 10-15plus yrs ago was very common to get 1-9 twist barrels on factory AR15’s. Have you tried 68’s-69’s? 2009 I bought a brand new Bushmaster it had a 223 chamber with a 1-9 twist barrel. That’s another thing a lot of AR15 back then we’re cut with 223 Remington. Things have really changed in the AR15 world in the 10-15yrs.

I've had two Bear Creek 6.5 Grendel barrels.
neither was a very good experience... the best one might regularly shoot 4 in at 100 m with the same loads my Faxon barrel , PSA uppper and ruger American bolt gun chambered the same all shot said load under moa. and yes I tried many other loads in the Bear Creek barrels but to no avail.
high price tomato stakes

Doing good my friend. Nice to see you post here in this forum. I still consider myself new to these AR's. These guys here know a lot about them though. What most of us here believe is a good barrel is key for good accuracy. 79s mentioned WOA, which is White Oak Armament. Those guys have phenomenal stuff and are usually quite accurate. Above standard for sure. There are some guys here like splattermattic that have had good luck with Bear Creek, maybe a couple others have had good luck with them as well. But that is not the norm. Most here don't really like them, maybe because they had bad luck before. I think they have gotten better over the last couple years or so, according to what I've read here. Thanks for answering my questions. I'm assuming those groups are 3 shots? Do you have any AR's set up with scopes?

No.

Run away screaming.
bear creek completely screwed up a factory upper in 7.62x39. Barrel was short chambered. Sent 3 or 4 spent brass to show it was test fired.

those were lies.

*Anyone that knows about AR's understand that if the bolt won't close, it won't fire.

Son sent upper back to them. After a month+ of them having it, son complained to classic firearms, which sold him the upper. Classic emailed the company on his behalf (which wouldn't answer emails or phone from my sons calls) and they finally send him the upper back around week 6.

Only this time, the dumbasses put a 223 bolt in a 7.62x39 barreled upper. So, as you would imagine that too wouldn't work either.

Son called and complained to classic again, and they told him to send it back to them again. Son said no, he wanted a refund. Classic didn't want to because it was a "factory warranty issue".

Son told him either send him a return shipping label back to them so they could deal with it and they still didn't want to. Son went and disputed the charge with the bank.

So, based on these experiences, not just no, but hell no.

They were also raided by ice and apparently had a bunch of illegals working for them. They also do business as moore manufacturing, which equally sucks.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/n.../83-882ce58d-4435-4178-985a-8ca4ecaa8027

Oh boy the infamous raid from 4yrs ago. still being brought up..

Looking to build on a stripped lower I had laying around.
Didn't really want a 5.56/.223, so went barrel shopping.
About the third site had a BCA heavy, fluted barrel in .223 Wylde.
I'm a tightwad and the barrel was priced at $58!
Shooting dude!

I have some folks I won't do business with other folks flock to and vice versa.
Sometimes folks just do weird she-eye-tee!
Who knows why?
Headache, hemorrhoids, hangovers, ingrown toenail!
I dunno?

Ya know what’s worse than bringing up the ICE raid from 4 years ago? People ignoring all the BCA horror stories.

BCA is bottom of the barrel trash, made by a trash company, probably run by trash people who live in a trailer with trash in the front yard.

Jesus show us on the teddy bear where the bad people touched you.. lol… What’s wrong with living in a trailer?

BCA upper, PSA Lower

300BLK - subsonic - 50 yards - 11 shots - 210gr cast lead

Nothing, as long as you don’t live in a trailer AND work at the dump.

I should add that I did call BCA this afternoon prior to this post. My phone call was the cause of me asking you fine folks opinion. A call to the”technical advice” extension resulted in the most underwhelming response I’ve witnessed in a long while.

I swear, listening to whoever it was answering my call…..he was either on meth, stoned or drunk as hell. Perhaps all three. He could not form a coherent sentence to the most basic questions. “Uhhh……uhhh…..well……….uh what was your (sniff sniff) question? “ After that his mumbling only got worse, and more random.

That’s what prompted me to inquire about them with the Campfire Illuminati.

Calling Windham Monday. Their website has the package I want “available on back order “……par for the course for me.

Windham has some nice stuff. I use their barrels. They also send the matching bolts when you order a barrel. Or at least the last 3 barrels I bought they did that with. I don't know what the rest of the guys think about Windham Weaponry, but their Varmint Exterminator 20" stainless fluted barrels have been damn good. I'll bet their other 20" barrels would be good too. I'm not sure where they get the blanks or who actually does the machining though.. Maybe someone here does? Here's how one of my favorite 20" Windham barrels shoots:


That was at a match my club held a while ago.

And my iron sighted Noveske, that day:


At my clubs AR shoot a couple years ago, I had to put my Noveske away because it is like cheating. Pulled a brand new to me Colt pre ban out and flung 10 shots at the target during a match:


I let a couple other guys shoot it in that match and they were shooting 3" groups with it.. 79s question about the twist rate is a great one. If it has a 1 in 9, that is alright. But you have to use the right bullets in it. 69 grainers work just fine in my experience. I really like the 69SMK. My Bushmaster 20" barrel likes 69gr bullets.

3" 3 shot groups would have me tearing that barrel off and throwing it in the trash can. I don't even like 3" 3 shot groups at 400 yards..

That's an HBAR though. The Colt above uses a skinny barrel, but still shoots damn well for what it is..

If BCA is acting like that on a phone call, I'd move my business elsewhere. Let us know what Windham says. Thanks!

Gees well aren’t you all high and mighty…

I have several and they do their job.