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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,983
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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Cutting Edge and Hammer are newer technology copper bullets. They’re more expansive than Barnes, designed to frag.
Not sure about CEB, but Hammer offers bullets of varying degrees of expansion with different percentages remaining in the core. Pretty interesting concept. One can match velocity with critter being hunted, for optimal terminal performance. Accuracy is excellent.
Expensive but IMO, worth it.
DF Way Too expensive for those that walk to their hunting location, consume no food or beverages when hunting, do not pay hunting lease fees or spend thousands of $ on guided hunts, ect. Everyone knows that the bullets fired during the hunting season are the most expensive part of hunting! 😉 memtb
Last edited by memtb; 01/20/23.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“LETS GO BRANDON”
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,045
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Barnes has painted themselves into a corner by claiming near 100% weight retention. The larger bullet above (next to a recovered .243 bullet in the second pic) is a 225gr .338 TTSX, shot out of a 26” 340 Wby: -- hit a moose in the right-rear ribs at about 3,040 fps; went through about 4-1/2 feet of moose; ended up breaking the left front shoulder; and ended up under the hide by the shoulder. IIRC, it now weighs 196 grains. So, after all of that, it retained about 87%, but not 100%, of its weight.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,430
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
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Barnes has painted themselves into a corner by claiming near 100% weight retention. The larger bullet above (next to a recovered .243 bullet in the second pic) is a 225gr .338 TTSX, shot out of a 26” 340 Wby: -- hit a moose in the right-rear ribs at about 3,040 fps; went through about 4-1/2 feet of moose; ended up breaking the left front shoulder; and ended up under the hide by the shoulder. IIRC, it now weighs 196 grains. So, after all of that, it retained about 87%, but not 100%, of its weight. Complete Failure!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 29,561
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 29,561 |
Barnes has painted themselves into a corner by claiming near 100% weight retention. The larger bullet above (next to a recovered .243 bullet in the second pic) is a 225gr .338 TTSX, shot out of a 26” 340 Wby: -- hit a moose in the right-rear ribs at about 3,040 fps; went through about 4-1/2 feet of moose; ended up breaking the left front shoulder; and ended up under the hide by the shoulder. IIRC, it now weighs 196 grains. So, after all of that, it retained about 87%, but not 100%, of its weight. I have zero problems with that performance
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 29,561
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 29,561 |
Barnes has painted themselves into a corner by claiming near 100% weight retention. The larger bullet above (next to a recovered .243 bullet in the second pic) is a 225gr .338 TTSX, shot out of a 26” 340 Wby: -- hit a moose in the right-rear ribs at about 3,040 fps; went through about 4-1/2 feet of moose; ended up breaking the left front shoulder; and ended up under the hide by the shoulder. IIRC, it now weighs 196 grains. So, after all of that, it retained about 87%, but not 100%, of its weight. I have zero problems with that performance
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 16,107
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 16,107 |
LRX 175 gr 30 cal on elk from 30-378. 3470 muzzle velocity. 270 yard shot. 416 Bee 300 gr TSX at 3150 fps. Antelope at 363 yards. Exit wound. I say they expanded.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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416 Bee 300 gr TSX at 3150 fps. Antelope at 363 yards. Exit wound. I say they expanded. Dang!!! Are you sure you brought enough gun for that?
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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 16,107 |
LOL I think so! I am working on my 460 Bee this year. 404 gr hammers at 3000 fps via RL17!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 678
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I have limited experience with monos, but I did have one "pencil" a large buck a few years back. TTSX 185 grain out of a 338 Federal. Shot behind the shoulder at 250 yards. He died, but did run a fair distance and spilled very little blood. Exit hole diameter was same as entry. Do they work? Sure. Most likely due to slower velocities and not smacking bone, but that experience tarnished my confidence in that particular load. Just my 2 cents...
Last edited by techfish; 01/24/23.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,757
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
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I have limited experience with monos, but I did have one "pencil" a large buck a few years back. TTSX 185 grain out of a 338 Federal. Shot behind the shoulder at 250 yards. He died, but did run a fair distance and spilled very little blood. Exit hole diameter was same as entry. Do they work? Sure. Most likely due to slower velocities and not smacking bone, but that experience tarnished my confidence in that particular load. Just my 2 cents... How was the internal damage?
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
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I have limited experience with monos, but I did have one "pencil" a large buck a few years back. TTSX 185 grain out of a 338 Federal. Shot behind the shoulder at 250 yards. He died, but did run a fair distance and spilled very little blood. Exit hole diameter was same as entry. Do they work? Sure. Most likely due to slower velocities and not smacking bone, but that experience tarnished my confidence in that particular load. Just my 2 cents... How was the internal damage? The bullet hit the bottom of both lungs, so the cavity was blood filled. The damage was clearly there, but nothing like a NBT or SGK. Again, lots of variables and one instance...
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,341
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2021
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Fotis' gun safe makes mine look like a box of puppies.
Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,989
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 5,989 |
I have very limited experience with copper bullets a whitetail and a mouflon, in both of those cases it seamed to be slower killing. Both animals were shot through the lungs and both went well over 100 yards. Based on this limited experience I have stuck with conventional and bonded bullets instead.
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 16,107 |
Fotis' gun safe makes mine look like a box of puppies. Lol
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I have very limited experience with copper bullets a whitetail and a mouflon, in both of those cases it seamed to be slower killing. Both animals were shot through the lungs and both went well over 100 yards. Based on this limited experience I have stuck with conventional and bonded bullets instead. What type of bullet/cartridge? What velocity?
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,989
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,989 |
In both cases it was a .223. One was the 53gr tsx and the other was a 55gr tsx. The whitetail was taken at about 50 yards. The mouflon was about 100 yards. Muzzle velocity in both cases was about 3300 fps.
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,426
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Going to south Texas on a hog hunt next week.
Decided to try something different, so I snagged some .224, 55gr tsx.
Loaded them in my custom 22/250, over 35 5 of varget.
Getting half moa or better, at 3700.
Thinking they should do wondrous things to hogs.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 997
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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For those that like the solid copper bullet, you might want to look at the LEHIGH DEFENSE line of bullets. They have come out with several new styles and they are available . A video I saw last week showed their new manufacturing plant in NE Texas producing about 400,000 bullet a week. The bullets can be bought thru WILSON COMBAT in North Arkansas, Berryville.
Last edited by DLALLDER; 01/27/23.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 8,813
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I can't think of any bullets made out of copper. But I think they made them maybe a century ago???
Life member NRA I prefer classic. Semper Fi - SGT I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 34,523
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 34,523 |
Fotis' gun safe makes mine look like a box of puppies. He do have some hosses in his safe. I'm now on a mission to load Absolute Hammer bullets. As you know, they're designed so the ogive doesn't engrave the rifling, the only thing touching the bore is the patented, low friction driving bands. Thus, they can be pushed at higher velocities, often 150 fps and even more more above conventional loads. And, to fill the case with enough powder to get those speeds, faster than usual powder is needed. I've ordered 15 bullet samples for a number of rounds. Say for example, H-4350 is the typical powder for a round, you may now be using Varget or similar burn rate. They also recommend good neck tension for these slippery bullets. I don't have bench rest type sizers to swap out bushings, so I use a Lee Factory Crimp to insure good neck tension. I know some don't crimp, just going with the recommendation for adequate neck tension. In my case, that's the easiest way to get there. The Shock Hammer that I've used opens a bit faster than the Hammer Hunter with its smaller 1.5 mm HP. The Shock Hammer has 80% core retention, whereas the Hunter has 60-70% retention. The Absolute Hammer has the same HP as the Hunter, both high BC bullets for LR shooting. It changes the dynamic when you can get .300 WM performance out of an '06, .300 RUM performance out of a .300 WM. Even that infamous "man bun" round comes alive, running with the big boys, like 109 gr. AH at 3,200-3,300 fps. Yeah... Interesting stuff. Check it out. DF
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