Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Australia Everyday gun use in Australia?

I wonder the percentage of the Australian population that:

1) Carries a handgun every day?
2) Has a gun (of whatever type) in their car while driving around every day, even if not on their person?

Please note I am not asking about people who have gun(s) at home, and just take them out to go hunting or to the range for a little target practice.

Do any of our Aussie friends know? Even roughly?

Thanks

Jstuart once told me the hoops one need jump through to obtain semi autos or handguns wasn't worth the trouble to him.

I met an Australian guy a couple of years ago in Europe, and he invited me out varmint hunting on his property any time. Varmints there are kangaroos, dingos, rabbits, etc. I asked him about firearms and he didn't think it was as bog a deal as we do. BUT, I didn't get into any details.

Hunting, pest control and target shooting, handguns, rifle, shotgun. Pump, bolt, lever, straight pull, for rifles....semi auto is heavily restricted, farmers or feral control where firepower is needed.

I don't know about daily carry or in car but about 28% of the population live in rural areas. Not sure what percentage of these would carry, and rural areas may not necessarily mean that firearms would be present.

I used to hunt deer on a property a fews hours drive out of Brisbane. The neighbouring property was owned by a group of greenies from the southern states who had it as a retreat and santuary or sorts. I think the deer used to feed on their property and then get shot once they jumped the fence.

1. Private carry, none
2. The only people that would bother to do so are those using them at work or for hunting...not much point otherwise.

The thing you fellows don't seem to grasp is that there isn't much point in walking about with a firearm on your person in Australia, as it is simply not needed.


Yes I am aware that some clown is going to huff and puff about "freedom" or some such...but the only pricks that want to carry here are want-to-be bad-arses...generally referred to as wankers.

Not quite, a pistol licence is easy enough for club use...just paperwork. Semi auto is more convoluted...I can get such put on my licence but have absolutely no interest in doing so.
Those who have a disability can, and to be frank that is the only reason I would consider one for myself.

Unfortunately here in the US there is good reason to carry a weapon in many places. we do not live in the ShangriLa Of Australia. Funny how freedom is not high on your list. Seems that the government you have is plenty of reason to be armed. I guess freedom doesn't mean much if you don't have it. https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/aus...-lockdown-in-sydney-covid-19-cases-rise/

License, interesting that your require a license. Why?

“Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose”…JJ

rickhead, how are the school shootings going over there? What's the count so far this year? Why don't the armed heros over there come out of the closet and protect the children? Too busy posting about their freedoms on the internet I suppose, or pussys deep down maybe?

Your freedoms keep you guys shit scared full time. The greatest amount of diatribe slandering of other countries is the result of deep seated fear and insecurity ingrained in alot of you guys. Maybe if you guys had a better standard of living, and life satisfaction, you'd understand.

If you believe all the bull Schitt put out by the media from any country you will be convinced the worlds gonna end.
I personally have no use for an AR platform rifle. I do have one though because some cockroaches in Washington D C don’t like it. Fug them we have a Bill of Rights.
As far as Australia goes I would love to go there but I’m not sitting on an airplane again.
Edk

Hi Blu-Cs, in answer to your questions.

1. The only people who carry a handgun all day are those in a profession.. Police, security etc and a very small % of workers in rural areas(some farmers can get a permit, maybe some remote area animal control officers etc). They can only carry whilst on the job. Even police in Australia are not generally approved to carry a handgun outside of work hours- their gun are locked at their stations when off duty, they dont take them home.

2. General carry of a long arm in a vehicle is only allowed if the person has a planned purpose- aka on the way to a hunt, to the rifle range, to a buddies property to shoot cans etc. You cant generally just ""put a gun in your car and leave it there permanently" is what I am saying. At the end of the purpose you have to lock it up in your safe or dwelling until next time.

Farmers or landowners or remote workers have more leeway eg they may have guns in the truck, ATV or boat for r remote work or opportunistic use. Technically all guns need to be locked up in a safe when not in use or at the end of a days use and they have to use all possible means to duplicate it( whether lock it in the cab etc)

So in a nutshell, almost no handgun for general carry.

And no long guns for general vehicle carry.

I dont agree with any of these laws, I see them as completely unecessary. The handgun laws in Australia came in about the same time the US gun control acts in the 30's came in( I think). I cant remember if it was anti-crime push like yours were(after al capone shot up too many fellas with short barrelled machine guns) or it might even have been anti-communist( some bizarre link between the communist party and handguns here)

The long guns in vehicles laws came in with the 1996 gun bans. Prior to that in most states you could leave your long guns pretty much anywhere you wanted.. Most fellas didnt have safes- rifles were left in sheds, barns, vehicles, closets or under your bed. You could drive around with one in a window rack of your ute( pickup) all day every day. Life went on, no one cared.

Much better days.

Oh good...fuck off and don't visit...problem solved.

Thanks for the answers so far!

I get that in Australia you need a "license" to own a gun of any type. And your average civilian (non-leo, etc.) will not have an EDC (odd to us Americans that LEO's have to leave their gun behind at their place of work at the end of their shift as the normal procedure for LEO's in the US is that they are expected to carry on or off duty), nor carry a long gun in a vehicle unless it is for going to and from the range or hunting etc.

Just to take things a bit further, what about ammo, or reloading components? Or reloading tools such as a press or dies? Do you need a special permit to buy any of that kind of thing?

Thanks in advance.

The firearms licence, or weapons licence, will allow you to buy ammunition and powder. Don't need the licence for anything else. They don't check the ammo or powder type against what firearms you actually own, just that you have a licence. The amount of powder you buy is recorded in a register that is meant to be used by the authorities to check that you're not buying an excessive amount, like a bomber might do.

The powder is classed as a type of explosive and there are restrictions on the quantity you can store at home. No limit to how much live ammo you can have. It's more geared around safety in case of a fire. Ammo just cooks off like fire crackers in a fire situation but the powder could do much worse.

There's also security storage requirements for the powder and the ammo - can't have them accessed by unlicenced persons. I think the details of the requirements differ between the states but are otherwise fairly similar.

Do primers require a license?

Ah yes, I forgot the primers. Everything that burns or goes bang.

Projectiles and cases alone are just metal objects.

OK, now that we have the importance of a license in Australia established (pretty important!) I wonder about the license itself.

In the US, at least for CCW permits we have "shall issue" and "can issue". Must you show cause (i.e. a good reason) why you should be issued a gun permit?

And does it make a difference whether it is a handgun or a long gun?

Cultural difference I guess, but JStuart?

Any guys like you ever wander back country for recreation, and find time to save the world from walnuts or hedgeapples using a .22 pistol?

Seems like, from what I've read in your posts, that you make your living in the back country. Do you prefer to find your recreation somewhere else? Or just don't get any recreational thrill from off the job trigger time?

I've had my licenses for 30 years now so I can only provide a short answer for what I have to do for renewals. For long arms it's essentially filling in the forms and paying the fees every 10 years, and maybe getting an updated photo. For handguns, or rather concealable weapons, the renewals are similar but every 5 years, and I have to submit a record of participation every year to our pistol club for when the police may request to check on the activity of members (there are minimum participation requirements to be met). The participation record is a small card that we fill in and get the RO to sign off at each match.

I can use any of my long arms for target shooting or hunting where ever it is legal to do so (rifle ranges, rural private properties with owner's permission, and some NSW state forests with additional permits). I can only use my pistol for target shooting at an approved range.


I'm not able to provide a concise answer for the whole process for new licenses since I don't know the full details myself but can provide some links for the QLD rules:


https://www.police.qld.gov.au/units/weapons-licensing

https://www.police.qld.gov.au/weapon-licensing/applying-new-firearms-licence-queensland

https://www.police.qld.gov.au/weapon-licensing/individual-licence-types


Someone with a better ability to summarise the requirements may be able to provide a better answer.

There used to be additional high power / low power longarm distinctions when I was in Western Australia but I went through the full rigmarole and got to where I wanted to be, and that was a long time ago. When I moved back to Queensland, the recognition and transfer of licenses was relatively easy. Licenses are state controlled.

Oh yeah, I used to have a revolving carbine that was illegal in NSW but okay in QLD.

As mauser9mm said generally the long gun licence application is as follows, and in my opinion quite onorous.

1. Do a govt approved safety course. Get issued a certificate of completion
2. Get a letter of permission from some landowner to shoot on applicable hunting land. Note this is not needed for future shooting or any other place you hunt. its a one off requirement so the cops approving the licence can see you have permission to shoot somewhere at least. Basically its an illogical superfluous requirement just added as a general embiuggerance to people applying and random landowners.
3. Pretty sure you also have to join a local rifle range these days to show proof or have financial membership with SSAA, like a watered down version of the NRA
4. Compile all with a sheaf of paperwork, passport photos and submit to the state police licencing branch
5. Once you have your licence you then have to apply individually for each firearm. This involves an online application, stating a genuine need( another illogical waste of words along the lines of 'target shooting"or "recreational hunting"etc and wait for a permit to be issued. This is then presented to a firearm dealer for processing your sale from them or between you and another gunowner. The permit is sent to state police so they can register the sale to your name.

Handguns
Same as all above except more stringent at No.3, you need to be a member of a handgun club and jump through more hoops. You also have to escalate your ownership from rimfire to centrefire by stages, you cant just buy a 45 colt right off. Also you have to attend several registered shoots per year, for each class of handgun!( rimfire, I think below 9mm and above 9mm). This requirement is another load of crap, basically a deterrant to those who want to own several hanguns as you are having to spend a bunch of weekends at so called "registered range shoots" to maintain the licence. This particular embuggerance was actually cooked up by shooters themselves trying to stay in the good books with the government. One thing our gunlaws taught as is there are no shortages of sheeple on both sides of the debate. A lot of the damage was done by our own side.

As to your earlier comment about suprise LEO's dont carry guns at home here. Possibly as Australia has both 5x less homicide per capita and 5x less incarceration rate than the US. In fact all the 30 x 1st world countries have about 5x less than the US in either statistic. For the record the US was actually tracking the same as the rest of us until 1960's/70's. After that for some reason you guys incarceration rate suddenly jumped 300-400%.

The Canadian licensing system is somewhat similar though a bit less onerous. Once one gets the possession and acquisition License (PAL) it is only necessary to renew every five years. So it's really kind of a tax grab. Handguns are restricted and the Liberals would like to restrict them more. Although it is not really allowed, I know people who often carry in remote areas; without permission. If the area is that remote, they are not likely to see anyone, are they? GD

One thing to add is that the police have a register of firearms that we own. The register is a separate document and they used to issue periodically to the license owner, usually after a purchase was made, or a firearm sold. I think they stopped sending the updated register through - I certainly haven't received a copy for the last few transactions that I've made over the recent years. They do keep a register though. I think it's like an appendix or addendum to the actual license - linked to the license.

We have specific requirements for safe storage of firearms ie safes, and the police will inspect the safe and installation arrangements usually when we've move home. They'll also use the opportunity to check the safe contents against the register - or rather looking for extra or missing items.

Our firearms can be stored at other locations (eg friends house) but they have to be licensed and have a copy of a letter signed by the firearm's owner to say they have permission to be in possession of the firearm. This can happen for example when travelling to other locations for certain events. For example, Big Game Rifle match requires half a dozen rifles each and it's not possible to fit them all into the sedan with 3 or 4 passengers, so the guy with the ute or van or truck may end up carting a couple of dozen rifles or so, and well as storing them at his home leading up to the travel (assuming he also has the appropriate safe storage facilities at his home or point of departure - maybe starting from a club house with the larger storage facilities for example).

Question one...not legally we didn't.

Question two...I get my biggest jollies wandering over the sandhills on mine own two feet shooting rabbits with a 7mm Brno model 21, preferably without a scope...for a couple of reasons...shooting my model 21's at a heap of rabbits is lots of fun...and when a 7mm hits one of the little buggers I don't have to pick him up.

Win!

added, when I shoot deer I end up doing a shit load of unpaid work...and that is not my idea of fun.

self defense is where firepower is needed the most.

LMAO. Wife and I carry every day. Self responsible. We are scared of nothing. We protect ourselves and might protect others if it came down to it.

Of course I get it that most don't like life vests, fire extinguishers and AED either. Just prefer to risk it all.

I suppose the term brainwashed is rough. But really. What would you do illegally if you did and could carry every day? Nothing more.

As to the schools, a number of crimes have been stopped by armed citizens.

Australia has to be a cool place too. A shame its as far down the tubes as it is. I'm afraid we aren't far behind.

We don't have the option of owning guns for self defence, hunting and sporting use only.

I’ve never carried and never had any concerns about it – I feel just fine. You guys ever gone out without carrying?


I have a smoke alarm, fire extinguisher and first aid kit at home, and another set of the latter two in my car. I'm sure many others do the same.


I agree but seems some do carry and act illegally over there.


To add context, there has been 80 or so school shooting in the US so far this year – that’s about 80 or so more than over here. The number and ease of access to firearms to law abiding citizens doesn't seem to be a deterrent.


(You might want to sit down before reading this.)

You have that arse backwards in terms of quality of life. The US is slightly ahead of China (Australia ranking of 6, USA ranking of 20, China ranking of 23, according to US News. Other organizations have lists with similar results):

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country

(shown for headings:)


(applicable part of the list once sorted against US news rankings:)


Seems the US may already be in the S-bend.

I kinda think that we are best off not taking any quality of life advice from you guys.

You are probably correct...if you live in a cesspit.

I’m sure most of Australia is like most of the US. Safe and secure. Now if one chooses to live in a cesspool it’s your choice. I’ve lived in Ala ska and Florida and several other places. I have been living the country life back in North Dakota for about 40 years. I do visit other places but keep coming home.
Most of the school shootings you quote are actually drug shootings that just happen 5o take place near a school. NBN mostly. Does not affect most normal folks. Edk

Come on, people. No one is going to respond positively in a discussion when you insult their country. I wouldn’t and I don’t think you would either. Each country has its own quirks to include our own. This is the Australia forum. Why provoke citizens of the US’ best ally in the Southern Hemisphere?

The fine state of Illinois requires a FOID (firearms owners ID) for all firearms and ammo purchases. Thanks Chicago. It's been here since 1968, although there are hopes it will be finally repealed.

Not sure what to make out of the quality of life graph. I have been in small town Alaska for 50 years and like it. I have a good life going on and me and my wife are enjoying our retirement years.

Which country has the most people wanting to move to it and become a citizen, the good old U.S. of America. Our country is taking a hit because we refuse to control our borders and liberals use that as a way to get votes. The cost of illegal immigration will ruin us.

Most of the problems the U.S. faces are a direct result of slavery from our past, "libtard" thinking and a growing majority not wanting to work and wanting to benefit from the money the American tax payer generates. A big part of our country suffers because of the sorry over populated poorly governed cities we have on our east and west coasts, with Chicago, Baltimore ad a few others of note. No matter what any one does it will not be fixed, ever.

In a little while my wife and me are going shopping for grub and whatever. When we leave I will have my pistol with me. One just never knows what life brings your way.

It appears that you live in a more dangerous society.

This right here: ^^^^^^^^^^

NOT judging from this thread, just my life in general.... I think most people who have never been anywhere overseas in the USA think we are the greatest place on the planet, and forget their manners when speaking with people of other nations...

I lived for 3 years in Britain in my youth, when my dad was stationed there in the USAF back in the mid 60s.. I learned to respect other people and their countries, especially when I was a guest in their nation. At the same time, being only a kid ( 11 to 14), I wouldn't stand for anyone pissing on the USA....

But I can say, that being outside the US in just Canada and Mexico, I was embarrassed to be an American overseas, just by the way my fellow countrymen acted to those people within their own countries... We wouldn't put up with that here, so why do we expect them to put up with us looking down on them in their own countries?

And the way things are in the USA nowadays within our borders I don't see where we have much to brag about, to other nations.

I'll put it this simple way, that was SOP when I was growing up.... If you hated someone's guts, but you were a guest in their home, or vice versa.... you left it on the door step. Common Courtesy and Respect has gone out the window in American society in the last couple of decades or more....

When working in Canada, I would have Canadian mellennials act like asses to me, and I'd ask them did I do something to offend them... The normal response was that they just hated Americans....Always there was an older Canadian who would come up and apologize for their mellennials criticizing the USA, and how their generation remembered how the USA stood hand in hand with Canada during WW2. My normal response was that I didn't take offense to it, because even people of younger age, hate and criticize the USA at every opportunity within our own country.

I'll never stand up and piss on Australia, New Zealand, Canucks, British or most Europeans, ( except the French LoL).....

Where I lived in England, was not far from Cambridge.. and a lot of families in our neighborhood were from the Commonwealth Nations.. and I was friends with many of those kids in our neighborhood... I formed ideas about them in my youth, that was always very positive... and in my entire life none of those were every disproved.

What I love about the French they make Americans look better because NO ONE is more pompous and self centered and think they are the greatest nation on earth, like the French do....

you want to talk about Tolerance? I live on the border of California.....with I 5 a mile from the house....

well said and I even raised a post about this on the European forum. Despite Australia having fairly similar culture to the US and a lot better gunlaws and freedoms than much of Europe , Australian forums always seem to come under much harder attack by random US posters. I also pointed out on the other thread, European, Asian and even South American sub-forums almost never get attacked at all in 20 years of the internet!

Look at the threads and posts here by rickt300, shootem, bustem, rifleguy etc and similar lightweights. Its like a meeting for 2 digit IQ anonymous, every week we get a new one appear..

Its why Aus/NZ forums are almost dead across US sites these days.

10 years ago Aus subforums were pumping- despite our lesser gun freedoms, we have hunting freedoms most countries can only dream of. Game in plague proportions, no seasons, no bag limits, no calibre restrictions, small game through to thickskinned and you can shoot 1000 head of game a year if you want. Conversations of such hunting, volume culling and Australian opinions on bullet performance ( since we can shoot as much in a year as other countries in a lifetime) were once commonplace. Now we barely poke our heads in to our own forums to see if anyone is talking hunting or just the usual abuse.

One could write a book on the differences between Australia and the US as nations. It is wide apart culturally as countries, especially in business, but the people have more similarities than differences.

Americans that have never traveled are generally poor listeners, aided by the inability to ask relevant questions so I, like most Aussies, get pretty tired to the same off regurgitated "You gave up your guns" BS.

I never met or knew a single person in Oz that owned an AR and I don't recall seeing many or any at the public ranges I frequented 2-3 dozen times a year for over 25 years there. Let me qualify that statement..........

Most have seen the picture on the Net of the "purchased" firearms being piled up for crushing during the buy back. The fat guy in the pic overseeing it was my father in law. The company doing the crushing was Metal Recycler's in Chipping Norton in Sydney. You will note from that pic that there are "NO" AR's in that pic, not a single one.

My FIL told me that even though the buy back included all semi auto's and pump's, there wasn't a quality gun in the lot. They were all pilfered long before arrival and all Aussies know that Browning's were a hot item in Oz. None, Zip. Maybe they weren't sold off, who knows?

Handguns, were never common and were removed from common access after WW1 (I recall 1926) but the point is, the handgun culture never existed there nor a market for them. Also, there is no "Bill of Rights" the equal of what the US has in place.

Now here is the big one. There is a sleeze element in the US that is absent in Australia. Sure, there is a scum element like anywhere else, but it is few in populous and low in profile compared to in particular, the US as a %.

Most Australians not only have never been robbed, assaulted, had a car stolen, a house broken into or even know anyone else who has. In the US it is at levels that are so high and so frequent it doesn't make it as newsworthy. The level of sleeze though existing everywhere, is much higher in the US which is why Americans feel a need to carry and claim the right to as justification. I do too.

I used to take American visitors down the Rocks under the Harbour Bridge at night in Sydney. Never had a single one who wasn't fearful just looking into the dark. Made hilarious entertainment and a point of fun over a drink later on. Sure you can get mugged, but you'd have to go out of your way to very specific streets decades known, for bad behaviour and therefore easily avoided and excluded from your life.

One of the biggest differences between the 2 countries is that America developed its travel routes. Many towns are 7 or 8 miles apart as that's is where the stage coach stops were. I used to live near one in the Rockies, an old log cabin pub where there was still an employment poster on the wall asking for mail riders, preferably orphaned and over 17 years of age. That's America and its foundation. The country is the same size as Australia so this landscape assisted crime in that people could commit acts and move on so easily and "Scott free". Americans have evolved watching their backs in their own country. Aussies, not so much.

Australia is a far more arid nation by comparison, so expansion was restricted by constant drought, poor soil and no people to toil over the land. Hence properties are in acres per animals and not animals per acre as in the US.

The one value an Australian has that and American may never have is the vote.

American voting is voluntary so only a relatively small percentage of population decides who rules. That is why the process can be controlled and manipulated.
By comparison, Australian voting is compulsory, in person, on paper, and counted in front of opposition observers. The other value is that Aussies generally disrespect politicians almost as a culture, to the point of sacking them whenever the "Hip pocket nerve" is affected. It is political suicide to piss off a voter in Oz. In the US, they always miraculously find a van full of incomplete or pre-printed votes from several cemetery residents to get across the line.

SUMMARY
1. American's do not know anything about Australian Gun Laws or their history.
2. Aussie's have a history of blowing their stack if pushed too hard and that time appears to be coming.

The United States was born in rebellion. And yeah, many revel in outlaw culture.

We rail about liberals wanting to restrict 2A liberties. 120 years ago it was the conservative interest groups pushing to outlaw handguns in settled areas.
I have vivid memories back to around 1963 or so. And had family from Arkansas to Tennessee, Colorado, Michigan, and Texas. There were a couple of handguns in the family, but no one carried one from day to day.

And I think that when commonsense local ordinances ruled, people were more or less OK with things.

When states like New Jersey, and Illinois made relatively minor violations into felonies it created a backlash.

Gun owners were not happy with Howards '96 laws. There were protest marches by gun owners, lobbying, etc.

Sadly, many in the general public supported the new laws because they felt it would make for a safer society.

Safety concern, it seems, is a major factor for the average voter.

Not being gun owners, the perceived threat of 'guns in the community' tends to be blown out of proportion.

True, and the populous being mainly city dwellers means no rural roots or association. I walked those protests back then and know how many people were there but typically, the legislation was pre written and shelved until a time considered appropriate or winnable.

Howard knew he was [bleep] on Australians that's why he wore a bullet proof vest, something never seen in Australian culture before or since.
Australian politics revolves around getting your 2 elections behind you to qualify for a parliamentary pension. That's always been the motivation. The voter is just to tool to achieve that retirement plan.

Exactly.

Wasting your time here fellas...those that know understand...those clowns that have no understanding will never know.

I enjoyed this. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.

I disagree. I've traveled a bit and lived in 10 different countries than the USA. Granted I only lived in Australia for a year. My friend who lived in Australia most of his life had very high-end rifles which he was required to register and then had them bought out by the Australian government for less than 5% of what he had in them. Your generalizations show that you do not know near as much as you pretend.

What "high end" rifles do you mean? And when was this? Gun registration came with Howard's laws in '96.

Bugger,
Please quote my generalizations?
I spoke of what I know to be true first hand, after living there 49 years not being a damn tourist quoting second hand info at best.
Your fallacy of a 5% return under the buy back program is as genuine as your first hand knowledge. Full of soup.
I know more about that program than you will ever know because I was there and went through it, so I very sincerely and in the best of Australian vernacular request that you bugger off, as you bring nothing of value to this discussion and only generate unnecessary friction.
John Woods

Fugger, you type utter bullshit. You know 0% of what you say you do.

He hasn't got a clue.

None of them do they're trolling.

Says he spent a year here, so he knows more about it than those who live here and experienced what happened.

We're not Australians, but we did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 😏

It's a shame so much bashing/trolling happens on the non-US boards. Gun/hunting culture abroad interests me a lot, but most of the boards are dead, aside from trolling.

Australia is a very isolated country not on usual travel or vacation routes, so foreigners have to go out of their way specifically to venture there.
This means that most information foreigners have is second hand at best, embellished either way to hell and back and then modded to suit their argument.
Because I live in the US now, I obviously know a lot of decent Americans who are very similar in attitude and decorum to the average Aussie but a dickhead is a dickhead and always was, no matter the flavour of the dirt under their feet. You will always know them on sight.

The only way to beat these idiots is to totally ignore them and let their thread or comment die right there. Hard to do, as Aussies are notorious for liking a scrap, but really is the best option.

Spend time talking or commenting with those that are like minded or helpful.
Cheers lads,
John

I'm not particularly well traveled myself, Canada is the only place outside the US I've been to. I would have liked to travel more, but life happens. My wife won't get on a plane, and I'm not terribly fond of flying myself. Call me crazy, but if I ever did go to Australia, I'd want it to be in the winter to see the snowy mountains or Tasmanian highlands. I'm very much a winter guy, and it would be a getaway from northern hemisphere summer. 🤷‍♂️

Sort of related to the topic at hand though, I was curious if rifles chambered in handgun cartridges are as strongly restricted as handguns there, or is it the firearm type, not the cartridge that matters?

Type of firearm rather than cartridge eg I have a 9mm carbine that I can take out hunting but a 9mm pistol that I can't.

Handgun cartridges generally don't offer any advantages for hunting under Aussie conditions so these rifles will only ever exist if at all, in small quantity. Ranges are mostly open compared to the US hunting conditions particularly in the east whereby the farm lands most Aussies hunt on have open areas which provide shots out to longish ranges. It depends on the hunter more than anything. Some guys like to hunt timber but open country adjacent to timber is more common there, so an open sighted lever rifle will loose a lot of opportunity. If the cartridge were any pistol option really, it would not offer anything to brag about.

Even when hunting the thick gullies in the mountain ranges after sambar, most hunters are scouring the opposite slopes so again, even though it is technically timber hunting, longer shots become available.

With excessive game numbers, there is also no special season for bow/muzzle loader/pistol and high seat (treestand) hunting is less likely due to size of properties and different tree types.
In most states it is pretty much open season all year around, no tags, no bag limits (on deer), no requirement to recover anything.

Pistol cartridge carbines are fun guns for pigging in swamps, not for hunting on most places.

A 9mm carbine has to be a sub-machine gun to come close to being useful, but not anyway that I know for sure. I've used 357mag out of a rifle on kangaroos and it's totally effective out to at least 70m, as far as I've shot them anyway. I was amazed it worked as well as it did. Hornady XTPs are brilliant.

I have to differ to the above comments at least in respect to my own state- 357 and 44 mag carbine quite popular in QLD, 44-40 not uncommon too. Lots of use in open forest, grassland, woodland and rainforest( of course). If you check gun classifieds there are always plenty going for sale. Some are cowboy action guns but a lot the seller specifies prior hunting use. Plenty of brands of hunting ammo for 357 and 44mag on shelves too, not an indication of obscure calibres.

'


I shoot XTP's to 125 yards, they are good killers yep. A 357 in a 1894 or even better modern 1892 repro( which are as strong as some bolt actions) can push 158gn bullets towards 2100fps.

Thanks for the info. I was just curious as a guy who has little use for handguns, but loves handgun cartridge rifles. I've shot a few whitetail deer with a 44 Mag rifle in the past, and my go-to squirrel rifle the past couple years has been a Henry steel carbine shooting 32 S&W Longs.

I'm more of a plinker than hunter these days though, and I just love them for the negligible recoil and cheapness of reloading in comparison to most rifle cartridges these days.

Might have already been covered earlier but I think some landowners (farmers) may be allowed to carry and use handguns, but I've never seen it. I would think however that a 22 rifle at least would be found in most farm vehicles, but then again I've never asked.

I thought Kris Christopherson wrote that in ' Me and Bobby Mcgee'

Careful with studies. Note the things that make up "quality of life" by their metrics.

- Purchasing Power (including rent)
- Safety
- Health Care
- Cost of Living
- Property Price to Income Ratio
- Traffic Commute Time
- Pollution
- Climate

For the safety metric the US is #3 behind China and India - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world (lots of odd info there but page down to the bottom of first section

And even that is kinda crap give their weighting criteria.

There are 23 different indicators used to determine how safe or how dangerous a country is. These factors are broken into these categories:

- Ongoing International and Domestic Conflict
- Societal Safety and Security
- Militarization

The factors used to compile this report include:

-Number of internal and external violent conflicts
-Level of distrust
-Political instability
-Potential for terrorist acts
-Number of homicides
-Military expenditures as a percentage of GDP

I think I'll stick with the US the way it is. Although, happy to visit Australia too. I'll try and buy everyone enough quality Australian craft beers to keep both natives and us tourists happy. I'll accept that the amount may be quite a lot.

Interesting. The 9mm kills deer here quite well. Dont' run far. Works almost as good on deer and pigs as our 10mm does. Of course deer and pigs are not hard to kill. I've bio clue how hard your kangaroos are to kill

Oddly, there are two places in the world where you cannot kill Kangaroos - Australia and France. (there is a small wild population of Wallabies in a forest in France which cannot be hunted because they are not on the list of approved game species).

In New Zealand, hunting wallabies is encouraged. They are an introduced pest.

Most hunting in Australia is Rabbits, Foxes, Pigs, Deer (6 different species), wild Cattle, Donkeys, Horses and Dogs, Asiatic Buffalo, Camels, and the top is Banteng.

Of these, only the smaller game live in places where the shorter ranges of pistol calibre carbines (357/44 Mag and 45 Long Colt/454 Cassull mainly) are both useful and sufficiently powerful.

Rabbits are scarce, decimated by calicivirus.

You can shoot them in Australia but you need a permit. Permits are not that difficult to get since the roos are prolific breeders and numbers can become overwhelming at times. The sides of our interstate country highways are testament to the numbers - drive across the Nullabor and there seems to be a stinking roo corpse every 10 metres or so

I did not know that the French had them over there. I guess that they would be a relatively benign introduced species.

Roos aren't that hard to kill. I haven't yet tried to shoot anything with the 9mm.

That's a good thing but I do miss them because there were fun to hunt. The ones that are still around seem to be extra jittery.

There is something amiss with the info in that section. A link to the Global Safety Index on that page shows a list of best to worst with Australia at 10th, China at 85th and USA at 117th.

Any sort of poll or analysis will always be subjective to some extent in regards to parameters defining quality of life and their associated weightings in the overall assessment.

Someone mentioned donkey hunting... are feral donkeys a big problem there?

Feral cats are a problem.

Not sure, haven't heard anything lately. Looks like they are somewhat in the remote regions. Most of the human population is on the east coast with relatively short travel to areas with pigs, foxes, cats, wild dogs etc so these are more commonly hunted. Camels were also a problem at one stage I thought but you'd have to be really keen, and well prepared, to visit the areas where they inhabit.

Check out the appendix in the attached report (it's 10 years old, so is out of date, but gives some sort of idea):




Pest Animals OzzieLand

At last, some common sense. The OP asked some reasonable questions, and they require reasonable answers. Apart from gun laws we have a lot in common with the US. We shared a few wars for starters. I've been a hunter and shooter most of my adult life, I'm currently a qualified Range Officer, and did my time in our Army. You get good and bad in any country, and when you consider the US population is over 300 million against our roughly 25 million, then realise Australia is roughly the size of the Continental United States. Then a little perspective creeps in.
Sure we don't have school shootings and we can't go into a gun store and just walk out with anything we want. But that doesn't make us subservient to our Government. I have no reason whatever to carry a handgun, or for that matter a long arm in my car unless I'm on my way to someplace I can use it. Guns are tools just like chisels and saws. I bet more people get killed by cars and sharp chisels than they do with firearms.
Yes, we have crime here, that's a fact of life. We also have what have come to be known as "home invasions" that can be dealt with using whatever happens to be close handy, like the shovel I use to pick up my dog [bleep]. Nobody wants to get hit in the face with that.

That didn't stop the French from getting all bitter and twisted when we cancelled the sub deal!

I’m a wanker… I have a pistol with me at all times. G20 in a 10mm in my center console. Now with that I been to a few countries South Korea for one I wandered Seoul with my buddy going places where average American soldiers didn’t go, not once did I feel like I need a firearm it was just a safe city. I’m sure one could find trouble. I’m sure Australia is the same, here in America seems we have a higher number of unhinged people. To the point I hate going to our local City of Anchorage, bunch of weird SOB’s wandering that whole city. If I lived in a country like Australia or Canada I would definitely have no need for a pistol.

Horses, donkeys, wild cattle and several deer species can all be found in woodland or close bush as well. Of those horses, deer and donkeys are doable for a stoked 44 mag or 45 colt with the right bullets. 44-40 high power loads as well.

To the other fellas question, donkeys arent a major problem . Not sure of their range but they are shot quite a bit in my state. They are considered tougher animals than horses too.

Very interesting. It's just very strange reading deer listed as a pest animal, as someone who lives in a state with an extremely short annual licensed deer season. We only get a 7 day firearm season for them.

I know feral cats are a big problem in cities here in the US, and feral hogs are thick down south. Where I'm at, coyotes, ground squirrels, groundhogs, and raccoons are the worst pest animals. Feral hogs are beginning to trickle into the area, though, so I'm sure they'll become an issue sooner than later.

Agreed - their criteria for safety seems kinda wonky IMO.

I live very near Baltimore, a truly unsafe city, but we've had virtually no violent crime near me in 20+ years. Property crime yes. The US, just like Australia I expect, has its pockets of crime that are generally easy enough to avoid. That being said, the only time I was confronted with potentially violent crime was in a very rural section of Washington State. I had a Colt 1911 that prevented it. That was over 30 years ago.

crime and murders are where you find them. Thats EXACTLY why we carry 24/7 as long as its feasible. Like you can't on a plane, but can in the airport etc....

Not having the self responsibility to protect yourself is just nuts.

There are "rumors" a few have been killed near a friends house. His property is within a mile of large sections of the Shawnee National Forrest. I'm really hoping they don't get established down here. Fortunately, there are a couple big rivers in the way of their northern migration.

It is challenging to comprehend that Australia is roughly the same size as the "lower 48" but with a population roughly equal to the greater Los Angles area. Then factor in something near 85% of the population lives within 30mi / 50km of the coast. That doesn't leave much for in the middle. I thought rural Nevada was sparsely populated.

Hoped I'd get the chance to visit when I worked for Peabody. They flew nearly every other engineer down there to visit a mine. I did find it amusing that one of the few Aussies I've worked with hadn't heard of Steve Irwin until he lived in the States. He also told me Aussies normally don't drink Fosters. I don't remember if it was him or someone else that told me XXXX got it's name because guys from Queensland can't spell beer. I believe he was from Perth. I assumed that was something similar to how Southerner's make fun of Yankee's here in the US. Personally, I'm a James Boag fan, when I can find it.

From what I've read/seen/heard, the history of wildlife in Australia is complicated. Lots of opinions on native, non-native, and feral species. Opinions of fox, hogs, rabbit, cane toads, and cats alone could generate pages of discussion. But, I live half a world away and I'm probably wrong.

Yes, but not as bad as the camels. There are estimated to be over 500,000 wild camel in the deserts of 3 adjoining States. Fences are no barrier they just walk through them, knock over water tanks and trample native scrub. I was on a 1 million acre cattle Station (ranch) in Western Australia once and the owner showed me a place where he had shot a heap of camels. It looked like a dinosoar graveyard. He used a Winchester mod 70 in 270.

Pest animals are "invasive introduced species" by definition. I guess that there could be "non-invasive introduced species" but don't know what they are. Deer are a non-native animal of Australia. According to the report deer may carry exotic disease and are a general threat to the biodiversity. Australia has many unique, small animals that are sensitive to the impact of these larger introduced animals and the effect that they have on their habitat.

I was wondering about the 158 XTP reference. They have a great reputation. A really good shooting and handloading writer, Brian Pearce, is very complimentary of that bullet and the .357 from carbines and describes loads similar to what you mention. In his estimation, at appropriate ranges, the practical performance of the .357 from a carbine is similar to that of a .30-30. IMO, that’s pretty high praise.

Yeah, I understand the reasoning for it, just really stood out while reading since deer are the premier game species here in the US. I know the U.K. is having issues with those little muntjac deer being quite a disruptive invasive.

Even here where deer are native, they can become a serious nusciance when unchecked. Back in the early 2000s when I was living in Minnesota, deer hunting was actually allowed in certain places within town limits for a few years because they had gotten so thick a bunch of people were hitting them with cars in residential neighborhoods.




Hard to go wrong with .270 for a medium game round. I used one for whitetail deer quite a few years myself. Mine was a Remington 7600 pump, though.

There were some feral camels in the southwestern US that got loose from an experimental Army camel corps in the late 19th and early 20th century, but they never got well established and had all died off by the 1940s.

Id sum up the main differences between US and Australia as follows

US has far more guns, gun rights but so many hunters per game it has strict regs and seasons to manage them.

Australia has plague proportions of at least a dozen major species, my state alone has the worlds largest population of wild pigs, they outnumber people by a million or so, wild cattle, wild camels( well it shares them with a couple other states), wild donkeys and probably wild horses. Also have wild dogs, goats and cats but not sure how we rank numbers wise. In Australia you can shoot most gameno bag limits or seasons, day or night, from vehicle, boat, bike or helicopter, blast away until your barrel melts and leave it to rot. Dedicated hunters here have kills in the thousands.

However....there is an important caveat most Aussies dont mention. There is very little public land available for hunting anymore. You usually need your own land or permission from another landowner to shoot anywhere, and as farmers/landowners are worried about the vandalism, carelessness and liability these days, its not as easy as it used to be to get onto land. There are some states which allow hunting in state parks and have programs to cull animals in protected areas, but by and large Australias greatest surface area is permission only hunting these days.

That's a bummer about the land access issue there. It's becoming more of an issue in the eastern US, but it doesn't sound like to near as badly a degree as there in Aus.

Is the closing of public lands to hunting a fairly sudden recent development there, or was it just a slow progression?.