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Originally Posted by alpinecrick
Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT
There's another theory that scrapie, which was being studied at the same CSU facility prior to the deer study, was able to cross the species barrier.

They weren't studying scrapie because it wasn't specifically known at that time. Scrapie is another form of TSE specific to sheep. CWD is a form of TSE specific to cervids. BSE is a form of TSE specific to bovines. Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease is a form of TSE specific to humans. And so on. The general name for these diseases are known as TSE's--Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (I dare ya to pronounce it quickly). The prion that causes TSE was not discovered until shortly before the deer at CSU arrived. And it was more than a year after they arrived the deer became obviously sick. Prions can be present in a critter or human for years before the disease becomes apparent.

It has been only more recently discovered Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease was prevalent in the Russian Czar family possibly going back 500 years. We just thought they were crazy.......
Was CSU studying whatever had been causing sheep to get sick and die for centuries, they just didn't know at the time they were studying scrapie?

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Originally Posted by gitem_12
i guess i will pose this. how big of an area does it require to be fair chase? a 10,000 Acre fenced in area would be unfathomable to truly understand to a guy who has spent all his life hunting the same 100 acres
100 acres of solid forest is nothing at all like 10k acres of mixed sagebrush and timber patches like what's found in much of southern Idaho. You can find open areas of sagebrush a square mile or more in size, often a LOT more. You can find large patches of timber but with equally large open areas between them. The timber patches often extend up the sides of steep mountains or draws, making secluded escape routes for elk.

The OP article says that the ranch workers stationed several hunters at the edge of a timber patch to wait while they moved through to chase the elk out. They knew exactly where they'd come out. Wild elk aren't going to be chased out into the open like that. They'll double back and will use a hidden escape route. It's amazing how a spooked elk can disappear. These elk aren't wild.


Sin wouldn't be so attractive if the wages were paid immediately.
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Originally Posted by Brad
I'll never understand a "hunt" like this...

+1!

I'd rather take a wild raghorn or cow than a freak like that.

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Livestock, not a game animal. I would not pollute my game pole with that nor would I allow it on my wall. This sort of thing is not good for the sport of hunting.

I would rather have a 5x5 raghorn bull taken fairly off public land than that "thing."


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Originally Posted by Teeder
Originally Posted by Brad
I'll never understand a "hunt" like this...

+1!

I'd rather take a wild raghorn or cow than a freak like that.


Yeah, that is not really hunting. It's "harvesting". I shoot a lot of spikes on public land where hunters success rates are only about 5%, so they are well earned. I also shoot cows and appreciate the meat they provide. This shooting at elk locked up behind a fence is unethical. There are probably a lot of guys here that like those antlers on their walls that do it every year though, then badger some of us thinking we don't shoot elk or hunt, but this is not "hunting".


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Brad
I'll never understand a "hunt" like this...

Agreed. Maybe he rolls with member sharpthings.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by gitem_12
i guess i will pose this. how big of an area does it require to be fair chase? a 10,000 Acre fenced in area would be unfathomable to truly understand to a guy who has spent all his life hunting the same 100 acres
100 acres of solid forest is nothing at all like 10k acres of mixed sagebrush and timber patches like what's found in much of southern Idaho. You can find open areas of sagebrush a square mile or more in size, often a LOT more. You can find large patches of timber but with equally large open areas between them. The timber patches often extend up the sides of steep mountains or draws, making secluded escape routes for elk.

The OP article says that the ranch workers stationed several hunters at the edge of a timber patch to wait while they moved through to chase the elk out. They knew exactly where they'd come out. Wild elk aren't going to be chased out into the open like that. They'll double back and will use a hidden escape route. It's amazing how a spooked elk can disappear. These elk aren't wild.


we drive WILD deer exactly like that successfully every year


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell


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Judging by the guys clothes in the picture, must not have been too hard of a "hunt" considering his blue jeans or red t shirt aren't even dirty or sweaty.

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Not even an attractive head, IMHO.

I'll take a normal 350 rack anytime over something like that.

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Originally Posted by johna1
Judging by the guys clothes in the picture, must not have been too hard of a "hunt" considering his blue jeans or red t shirt aren't even dirty or sweaty.
If you read the article, he was with a group of shooters ferried to a place near some timber. Then ranch employees chased the elk by them. They were all shooters, not a hunter in the crowd.


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Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
T Inman,
I know, as I said the line can get blurrier and blurrier. I think what bothers me the most about Rulon Jones that it is not clearly stated the circumstances of the hunt, many people from back east are not aware it is high fence--our very own Pugs and Jorge for example. There was a new member here a couple years ago from back east who breathlessly announced his wife had purchased a hunt on Broadmouth. He clearly did not understand it was a high fence hunt.

Whoever wrote the info on the Broadmouth literature and website is really, really good at being deceptive without being legally deceptive.

Understood, and agree for the most part.

I do not remember that new member talking about it but Pugs and his crew made it clear they knew what they were doing and never tried to hide it or be deceitful. If I remember right it was in the very first sentence of that thread.

I made the mistake of trusting a (non-CF) long-time friend who made all the arrangements for that trip and it was only after I had paid my deposit that I started to investigate and found out how it was run. The ranch was very evasive about it and several e-mails didn't answer my questions so I finally cornered them at the Harrisburg outdoors show. I let my friendship take over my normally cautious nature. I'm glad I went, I had a very good time with friends but it was not an elk hunt and I wanted to make sure that was clear in my post about it so others understood what they were getting into.

Still investing in Wyoming elk points to take myself on a real hunt sometime here after retirement.


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Gotcha. Makes sense.

You may not have known what you were dealing with when you paid the deposit but made clear what it was in your story/write up. That is good to go as far as I am concerned.



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Originally Posted by Brad
I'll never understand a "hunt" like this...

ask a Texan lol

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by Teeder
Originally Posted by Brad
I'll never understand a "hunt" like this...

+1!

I'd rather take a wild raghorn or cow than a freak like that.


Yeah, that is not really hunting. It's "harvesting". I shoot a lot of spikes on public land where hunters success rates are only about 5%, so they are well earned. I also shoot cows and appreciate the meat they provide. This shooting at elk locked up behind a fence is unethical. There are probably a lot of guys here that like those antlers on their walls that do it every year though, then badger some of us thinking we don't shoot elk or hunt, but this is not "hunting".

Id be super happy to take a cow elk every year archery elk hunting

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Originally Posted by Pugs
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by alpinecrick
T Inman,
I know, as I said the line can get blurrier and blurrier. I think what bothers me the most about Rulon Jones that it is not clearly stated the circumstances of the hunt, many people from back east are not aware it is high fence--our very own Pugs and Jorge for example. There was a new member here a couple years ago from back east who breathlessly announced his wife had purchased a hunt on Broadmouth. He clearly did not understand it was a high fence hunt.

Whoever wrote the info on the Broadmouth literature and website is really, really good at being deceptive without being legally deceptive.

Understood, and agree for the most part.

I do not remember that new member talking about it but Pugs and his crew made it clear they knew what they were doing and never tried to hide it or be deceitful. If I remember right it was in the very first sentence of that thread.

I made the mistake of trusting a (non-CF) long-time friend who made all the arrangements for that trip and it was only after I had paid my deposit that I started to investigate and found out how it was run. The ranch was very evasive about it and several e-mails didn't answer my questions so I finally cornered them at the Harrisburg outdoors show. I let my friendship take over my normally cautious nature. I'm glad I went, I had a very good time with friends but it was not an elk hunt and I wanted to make sure that was clear in my post about it so others understood what they were getting into.

Still investing in Wyoming elk points to take myself on a real hunt sometime here after retirement.

Pugs, I think you're a Veteran, and you wanna hunt Wyoming, so you should send a message to Fotis, I'd bet a dollar he could probably help you with getting in on that Wyoming hunt.

Agree with Ted, being upfront about the whole thing means a ton. It's about like finding a decent bison hunt. I want a bison for the freezer but I'd prefer something at least a little like hunting. I wouldn't kid myself though about "the hunt". It's definitely about putting one in the deep freezer and it's more fun than getting beef at the Restaurant Depot.


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I figure for every person shooting one behind a fence is one less competing with me in drawing a tag. The way things are going, I don't know if my 4 Wyoming points will even draw a general tag in 2023.


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I have a friend who killed a magnificent elk at Roulon Jones' place. Super good guy. He's wealthy, has some health limitations, knew what he was getting into and did it with a bow. He's happy with the experience. Not my style, but I certainly don't begrudge him for it.

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ugly rack!

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I kind of have a hard time telling folks what to do with their money or their livestock.

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I'm not exactly sure what the objection is here, so
someone will have to explain.
Many in my area spend thousands every year to
go " hunt " a whitetail deer.
Many decry high fence hunting, and as many embrace
it. Most all are trying to take a "good " buck. If
you strip away all the layers, they want a large
antlered head to put on the wall to post on their
web page, or show off to friends, or for whatever
reason. A good many don't keep the any meat,
some giving it away, some donating it to charitable
organizations, some stashing it in their freezer
for a year or 3 until it's useless. I'm sure there's
been many that just took the head and left the
carcass, otherwise we wouldn't have the laws we
do about taking a mandatory amount of the
carcass. It really doesn't bother me if the next
guy wants to hunt like he wants to and spend
a pile of money every year to get a new head or
two on the wall as long as the laws are followed.
I do wish that other people would leave me be
and let me "hunt " like I want to as long as I
follow the laws. My license costs as much as
everyone else's does

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