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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 42,488
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 42,488 |
I agree but will say this....Manners quality of inletting is a hell of alot better than McMillan......I think McMillan uses a chainsaw to inlet their stocks....very ragged & rough!!! \ I've ordered 7 McMillan stocks in the past two years, #7 arrived Saturday and #8 was ordered Tuesday, they all have fit as expected with M5 fitment perfect and barrel channels very good. Only one I had to send back was for a Christensen Arms rifle where the bolt rubbed against the stock. It worked fine but for the money, I sent it back anyway and they fixed it and had it back to me in three weeks if I recall correctly. I can't imagine waiting months for a stock and then not have it fit. I have in-laws in Kansas City and I had the pleasure of visiting Manners and shouldering some of their stocks. The fellow who was helping me seemed to be smitten with the MS and he could not drag stocks out of the back fast enough for me to try (I couldn't help but think that had I been alone, my experience may have been different). I will tell you that some I thought I'd like I really didn't after shouldering them and others felt really good. The thing that impressed me the most is there was a young woman doing shipping prep and she had a pile of boxes to label and they just kept coming. I like their stocks and patterns but I don't have the patience to spend $800 and hope it might fit. McMillan may not be as cool as Manners but they make it a lot easier and the wait is about 10 weeks based on my purchases. This is the one I installed Saturday, barrel clears the stock up to the receiver by the thickness of a piece of paper. ![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/dib1f7.jpg) And that is when guys swear they are getting POI shift when using a bi-pod and thinking that is normal. Not enough freefloat IMHO. Anytime that stock gets touched by the stock it affects harmonics and accuracy. A well tuned rifle will shoot the same, regardless if it's in the bags on a bench or on the ground shooting in prone off of a bipod. The reason you hear some guys say that if it's going to be freefloated, it better be generously freefloated. I'll bet if you flex that forend, it will touch the barrel pretty easily..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 287
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 287 |
Particularly the pre 64 model 70 inletting. You don't know how many times I've had to fix this: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/9xbbujn.jpg) Inlet looks right, guard looks like the guy that designed it knew nothing about stockmaking.
gunmaker
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Custom Metalsmith & Stockmaker
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,834
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,834 |
Had a problem with a Manners. They did resolve the issue, but I knew I was done with them. Haven’t ordered a McMillan in a long time, but have bought a few second hand lately.
My last 3 custom orders have been through AG Composites. I’m a fan and will use them again if I have a need.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342 |
Inlet looks right, guard looks like the guy that designed it knew nothing about stockmaking.  It only works in the factory stocks because they were just as poorly designed.  Good shootin' -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,532
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,532 |
Curious...don't mean to get off track...how would you make it fit better without grinding back of trigger guard?
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,042
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,042 |
Curious...don't mean to get off track...how would you make it fit better without grinding back of trigger guard? You don't. The trigger guard is the issue.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
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Curious...don't mean to get off track...how would you make it fit better without grinding back of trigger guard? The issue starts when a customer orders a stock pattern that clearly isn't going to accept the Model 70 bottom metal well. That's one of the reasons that McMillan condensed some of their offerings. Certainly, the stock companies should be advising customers of these cosmetic issues. When I do them, it really depends on the stock....whether it's a molded in pattern or one that going to be painted. How open the grip is plays a big part. I also have a supply of long discontinued genuine Winchester pre-64 steel trigger guards where the moronic angled rear section is flat. Good shootin' -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 287
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 287 |
In another lifetime I sold hot rod parts & accessories. Not much difference here. If you're looking for a factory fit, buy a factory part. Custom parts require customizing. I do agree with Al that the aftermarket parts makers could give some heads up.
gunmaker
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Custom Metalsmith & Stockmaker
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,266
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,266 |
I have a couple of those Hunters Edge stocks on pre 64s and was advised when ordering of the trigger guard fit by Lynn. No biggie for me, custom rifles were meant to be customized.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,673
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,673 |
I agree but will say this....Manners quality of inletting is a hell of alot better than McMillan......I think McMillan uses a chainsaw to inlet their stocks....very ragged & rough!!! I haven't ever seen one that was that bad myself. I guess everyone lets out a stinker now and again, and I am sure I am due for one after 25+ thru the years. I did have one that I sold on a Tikka not too long ago that was cracked in the inletting, McM took it back, repaired it and all is good now. It’s not that Manners inletting quality is bad, it’s not. The problem I’ve had with them is I can’t recall a single order where they actually got the order correct and inletted to the specs I requested. The quality of their stocks is excellent. The difficulty is in them producing what you requested. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,412
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,412 |
The last Manners I ordered was pretty close. I only had to file in a few places to get the M5 DBM to drop in.
$900+ stock.
I'm sure Tom is embarassed about the schidty inletting they continue to crank out, but with the high demand, I'd imagine it's easy to get over with a short trip to the bank.
Sucks for the end user, but welcome to 2023.
Although I was born visible, I identify as invisible. I am Trans-parent. My pronouns are Who/Where.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,423
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,484
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2011
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I have three LH Tikkas in Manners stocks, dropped right in, shoot way better than I do, and they look good.
Imagine a corporate oligarchy so effective, so advanced and fine tuned that its citizens still call it a democracy.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342 |
In another lifetime I sold hot rod parts & accessories. Not much difference here. If you're looking for a factory fit, buy a factory part. Custom parts require customizing. Whether it's rifles or at the race shop, I never expect anything to fit w/o moving some metal around. 'Drop in' stocks and ones with molded in pillars are really a joke. It's always better to get a basic inlet done and have the maker just put pilot holes in for the action screws. That way, you can do the pillars correctly. This 'big name' stock had the molded in pillars in there so janky, it was stupid. When I put it on the mill to bore them out, they just pushed right out...no end mill needed. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/fbAUJGgl.jpg) Action screw holes correctly spaced and cut for .625 custom pillars: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/SqS9or1l.jpg) Here you can see the bottom metal inletting has been milled to correct the fit: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/kukYtT9l.jpg) Countersunk pillars: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/BWIIQOJl.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/ry0goyIl.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/0EkzdrQl.jpg) I can't imagine being twitterpated over a few file strokes on a piece of hardware. If all this was easy, it would be in a bubble pack on the shelves at WalMart. Good shootin' -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 12,402
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 12,402 |
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,166
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 23,166 |
WWP53D
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,412
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14,412 |
I can't imagine being twitterpated over a few file strokes on a piece of hardware. If all this was easy, it would be in a bubble pack on the shelves at WalMart.
Good shootin' -Al Thing is Al, Badger makes M5 bottom metal across the street from Manners. It's only a matter of setting up a cnc to make the proper cut and on a $900+ stock with an 8+ month wait, it's not too much to ask that it drops in. I've ordered a bunch of McMillans and not had any issues.
Although I was born visible, I identify as invisible. I am Trans-parent. My pronouns are Who/Where.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342 |
Thank you both very much...appreciate it. I'm used to fab-ing or modifying whatever needs tweaking at the race shop. It's pretty straight forward: - Decide what you want the end result to be. - Decide what you need to do to get there. This Model 99 was particularly satisfying to do. A 'clean sheet of paper' pillar bedding job turned this gun into a reliable, consistent performer: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/vS26EgDl.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/mQWE76Cl.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/eCcqvN5l.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/MsdNAPUl.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/bJOwg1Ll.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/VBGsuLQl.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/5o3lldul.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/S0jXT81l.jpg) It's not a 17+ lb. Benchrest gun....though that's supposedly all I work on.....  Good shootin'  -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,042
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,042 |
The only problem I've had with McMillan is them missing the big picture. I ordered a HTG adjustable with M5 inletting. Stock #1 shows up 6 months later as a HTG adjustable with BDL inletting. A few months go by and I order the same stock as the original order. 5 months later stock #2 shows up as a HTG non adjustable with M5 inletting. Order a third time. 5 months later I get what I ordered 20 months earlier. Their inletting was spot on, they just screwed up the order 2 times. I've never ordered a Manners because their inletting has been $hitty forever.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,342 |
Thing is Al, Badger makes M5 bottom metal across the street from Manners. It's only a matter of setting up a cnc to make the proper cut and on a $900+ stock with an 8+ month wait, it's not too much to ask that it drops in Oh....I savvy all that, believe me. But that doesn't change the reality. The sooner people come to grips that 'drop in' stocks aren't...and can't be...truly 'drop in', the better. Some are reasonably close, some are truly awful and the vast majority are in the middle someplace. Why would we ever want to subject ourselves to what someone sends us? Instead of the tail wagging the dog, take control of the project and do it the way you want it done in the first place. Good shootin' -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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