Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats McMillan Fill Weights: The Official Policy!

William:

No, not correct.

In hunting patterns, all but the Ruger stocks can be built with their carbon-fiber EDGE technology.

For example, as in your case, you can have a Mountain Rifle pattern built in standard fill, fiberglass, and it will weigh 32 ounces or maybe a couple more, and you can also build that Mountain Rifle pattern in carbon-fiber EDGE technology, and it will weigh more like 23-24 ounces finished.

The EDGE construction is a few bucks more (and well worth it in my opinion!)

Rick

noKnees:

You can have an EDGE stock for everything but a Ruger.

Said another way, every hunting stock McMillan makes, except for Rugers, can be had in EDGE technology and finish at roughly 24 ounces.

They offer LOTS of choices.

Rick

WTF..... is that popsicle sticks??!!

Rick,
I know. I have 16 M77s and counting.(three more in the works as we speak). can't quit now. I really like the McMillan ruger R stock and Although I don't really like the pattern on the McMillan MkII classic, I could deal with it.

But Rugers suffer a couple of OZ weight disadvantage in the action so if you want a lighter than average rifle you need to save a few ounces elsewhere. I will see how the Banser and MPI goes. If that doesn't work out there is always Brown.

Who knows someday I might build a remmington.. Yah right

Rick,

Check your Campfire customer service e-mail...........just sent you a note on my existing order that is in.

This requires a change from what we agreed on a month or so ago.

A stock with "light as possible for caliber" fill now being called "Standard fill" and coming in at 32 oz+ just isn't what I had intended on getting.

I do not see this as a good thing for McM............back to the boat anchor weight stocks. UNLESS we want to pay $500 for an edge.

MM

MM:

Responded.


To all:

The thing is, from what Dick told me, this is the way they've been doing it all along.

I ALWAYS quoted 32 ounces as the more-or-less target weight of "light-as-possibe-for-caliber" fill, and they regularly came out that way.

I believe this to be a clarification of terminology, and NOT a change in policy.

McMillan is continuing to do what they've always done.

Rick

Why the couple oz variance in stocks of the same pattern? For example Mtn Hunter spec'd KS fill on a Classic Swirly and it came in at 25oz sans pad. That sounds like a slight modification on the fill to me if you take into account a 5 oz pad.

Rick,

Check MtnHtr's post under McM Swirlys topic on Rem Classic he just recently received:

Quote: "McM Classic 50% Purple, 25% lite Grey, 25% Black
KS fill

25oz pictured

MtnHtr"

This was ordered with "KS" fill..........

This is why I'm not overly happy about now paying an additional $100 for the weight reduction. I'd be happy with 26-27 oz but not 32+.

MM

Rick,

I don't think that is correct. Both Dick and Kelly have both told me about the KS fill. In fact there is a quote on your very site from Kelly talking about getting a Mtn rifle stock in KS Fill that would weigh about 28oz:

"We can make a Remington Mountain rifle stock weigh 28-30 ounces without using EDGE technology(for a .223 AI it would be at the lighter end Specify Rem KS fill)."

You can see the actual post here.

I also know it to be the case because I have a bunch of Mtn Rifle stocks that weigh in the 28oz range, though none of recent manufacture. At some point they did change things, and it is unfortunate.

Charley:

I had heard about KS "fill," but always assumed it was actually the Kevlar Special stocks that McMillan made for the Rem Custom Shop. I had a whole slew of those, and they all weighed in at about 24 ounces with pads, so when I heard 28 ounces, I wondered why I had all the light ones.

I built this .338 on one:



and this .270 Ti wears one too:



and I just bedded a .223 bull-barrelled action into a custom shop 40XB-Kevlar Special blank this past weekend.

But I never did see one in molded-in, like Mtn Hunter apparently has. That's a new one for me.

So, I am happy to stand corrected on the KS Fill thing. I just assumed it was the Rem Custom Shop stuff.

In any case, at various times, even before EDGE, I tried to get "KS FILL" and never could, and from there is where "light as possible for caliber" came, which apparently has been 32-ounce standard fill all along.

But I have one question: Is 28 ounces somehow a magic weight for rifle stocks, with 24 ounces being "lightish and 32 ounces "heavyish?"

I'm not sure I'm on board with that characterization. That's a pretty narrow window, and compared to a wood stock, 32 ounces is certainly light.

Anyway, I can't see how this affects my future purchases one bit. Like I've said, I'm sold, sold, sold on EDGE stocks, and that's where my money is going. IMO nothing comes close.

Rick

Rick,

There's no question about the quality and properties of the Edge; I wouldn't have just upgraded my order if there was........it's just the issue of another $100 to get to 23-24 oz when we were under the impression that for the $100 less, we were going to get stocks with "KS fill" or "lightest for caliber" coming in at 26-27 oz.

Now we are told that "lightest for caliber" actually means "Standard" and that equates to >32 oz.

Hope you see where I'm coming from here.

MM

MM:

I do.

The difference is $65 in Campfire prices ... $435 to $495.

I have never been able to get a "KS Fill" from McMillan. All my KS were overrun Rem Custom Shop patterns that I bought from a third party, and these were stocks made in 1999-2000. I bought them as a lot in 2002 I think.

Before EDGE, the lightest stock I was ever able to get directly from McM was 32 ounces (light as possible for caliber aka standard fill), which is why I used Bansners back BE (before EDGE).

Since EDGE, I see no other players in the 25-ounce game worth my time.

Like I said, "KS FILL" never happened for me.

Rick

Guys,
This is not a change in procedures, this is the way it always has been. We make all our stocks as light as we think we can and not have a lot of failures with broken out recoil lugs or fore-ends broken off trying to get the barreled action out of the stock after a bedding job.
We have always gotten a lot of orders requesting "light fill" or "light as possible fill" or "KS" fill or "mountain rifle fill" or "upside-down left-hand Vulcan fill", and we have always filled the stocks with our standard fill. That is "light as possible". We have always gotten a small weight variation in our stocks, one or two or three ounces. It is not the exact science you may think. Molded in colors weigh an ounce or two more than a painted stock. The resin is warmer in the summer than in the winter and may have a bit more bleed out of the mold when it's under pressure,etc. There are a lot of little variables.
When we mix in interior fill for the stocks it is mixed in big Hobart bread mixers in batches of 10 lbs or 20 lbs. Each batch has a certain receipe for that fill. When we started doing the KS stocks for Remington we needed to take about one, repeat one, ounce off the stocks to make their weight, so we added one extra cup of microbaloons to the standard fill to make KS fill. It saved about one ounce per stock. We only mixed it when we had a batch of KS stocks to fill. We have never mixed up a batch to use 3/4 of a pound to fill one stock and then thrown the other 9+ lbs away just to save one ounce on a single stock. Since Remington is discontinuing the "KS" rifles after a 25 year run due to lack of sales we will not be mixing KS fill again.
Doesn't matter, we never did it anyway except for the KS stocks and there is more that one ounce variation in the stocks anyway.
So, nothing has changed. The stocks will not be any heavier than they have ever been. We are not making them any different that we have for the last 10 or 15 years. We will still accept orders with any terminology of fill you want to say, and we will still make them the way we have always made them "as light as possible". It's just that now you know how it's really done. Magnum fill is just a more solid glass (more glass fibers in the resin)in the action area, and adds about 4 to 6 ounces to the stock. It's used for anything from the big .338's and up. Standard fill seems to be fine for all the calibers up thru the big .30's. "Sniper fill" is just "magnum fill" with the butt filled with the same light weight solid mixture we use in the fore-end so that it will support some of the hareware options.
The only reason I decided to bring this subject up is because my e-mail volume is way up (I'm not complaining) but so I didn't have to answer so many e-mail about the weight difference between "light fill", "light as possible fill", "KS fill" and "mountain rifle fill". The answer is "none at all"
Regards to all, Dick D.

Thank you, sir.

Rick

Oops, I should also mention that the size of the stock (interior volume to fill) and the inletting specs account for most of the weight variation in the stocks. A skinney little slender pattern like a RMR or a Rem. Compact inletted for a long 700, BDL floorplate and a magnum contour barrel will weight a lot less that a big Remington Hunter or Lazzeroni Thumbhole inletted for a short 700, blind magazine and a mountain rifle barrel contour. We havn't been able to change the laws of phyics and the more material you cut out of a stock the less it weighs.
Dick

Sounds like coersion or blackmail? I'm glad I like the Borden Rimrock!

For What its worth..

My .338 WM M-70 has a pillar bedded, ultra light stock from McMillian on it. I could not be happier. The bedding job came back with a serial # in the barrel channel, the best I've ever seen.

Bob

Thanks much for the clear and detailed answer, Dick D. That explains much.

It's all clear as resin now!

I really appreciate the connection that the campfire provides to people like Dick so that we can the most informed decisions we can about the products we buy and the services we use.

Rick--thank much.