Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Combination Guns and Drillings O/U combo gun, Johann Kalezky 16ga over 8x57JR

Worked with many different guns over the years, but never a drilling or combination gun. Found a great deal on a very nice O/U combination gun, 16 gauge over 8x57JR. I'm guessing the odd rifle chambering discouraged buyers.

Talking with knowledgeable folks, and looking at Ken Howell's book, the 8x57JR is the same case as the 8x57JRS, so I've ordered a good stock of Norma brass, and have found some .318 bullets & dies. I will have a local smith cast the chambers and slug the bore, to confirm the exact sizes.

From a loading standpoint, I see data for the 8x57 and Varget, and assume that I'll want to be very conservative for an old combo gun like this. If anyone can point me toward suitable load data, I'd appreciate it!

Don't know [bleep].
Some 8x57 loads and data aren't much better than 35 Remington.
Just looked at Nosler, they has 2400fps 180gr starting loads for Varget.

Look into some H4895 data. If you don't like the starting leads they can be reduced.

How low you need?
No idea.
Maybe look into JRS factory loads for a velocity window?

The first thing you need to do is put a small dab of white grease on the hinge pin.

You can use regular "S" bore data and dial back about 7-10%. Depending on when the gun was made and the maker you might have a .320-.321 bore. Most drillings made between the wars had generous bores, since the Germans had limited correct ammunition and used a lot of surplus 8X57S ammo in their combo guns, although the vast majority of combo guns were J bore chambered. That's right, the rimless .323 ammo. A 2-4 section cleaning rod would be carried to knock fired brass out, or in some instances a small coil spring loaded plunger would be milled into the extractor for extracting rimless ammo. It's also common on 7X57R drillings.

If the bore slugs to .320 or .321 32Spl 170gr bullets can be used and are often more accurate than .318 bullets. If accuracy is a bit edgy try the 32's. For years they were all we had for loading for the "J" bore. Buffalo Bullets and Hawk made good .318s in 196-200grains. I like the Hawks.

My go-to powder for the JR is R15 using starting load 8X57 S data. Don't push the gun. Being a JR it's no doubt older and a pre WWII gun.

We need pictures!

Cool! Thanks!

I have found S&B specs for their 196gr factory loads, indicating 710 m/s (2329 ft/sec) so I think 175 & 180's should be able to run 2400-2500 fps. Hodgdon shows some Varget loads in this range, as does Nosler. As far as pics, see the attachment

You might want to slow down the lighter bullets a bit to get them to regulate. If fast they might print too low.

Maybe a PM to Mule Deer as I am pretty sure he shoots a similar gun so chambered.

John shoots an 8X57JRS in a drilling that's pretty accurate. He could give some good 1st hand loading advice, since the rounds are so similar.

After looking at the photo I think you have a very sweet gun there. It's older and not as stout as the post war guns, so stick to the conservative JR loads.

It looks like you don't have it scoped, so slow the lighter 175-180gr bullets down; not as fast as the 196gr factory fodder. If you run them out as fast or faster you will most likely shoot way low to the iron sights. Try a couple of the 175s at 2,275 fps, and see where they print. Shoot two, then cool the gun down a lot, then shoot two more. If they shoot low slow them more or go to the 96-200gr bullets. They'll climb as the rifle barrel warms up, so shoot a cold gun to sight in and work up loads. Break the gun down to hasten cooling. It's also good to shoot the gun 3-4-5 or more times in fast succession and record where each prints as the gun warms.

Combo guns take getting used to and patience. IMO you have a good one.

Great info, thanks!

Down the road it would be interesting to scope it, if the mounts could be sourced..

Lee can get it scoped. It isn't cheap to scope these.

http://learmsllc.com/showroom/

I was at Lee's shop today. He's going through a circa 1962 Kreighoff Trumpf Primus 16/16/7X57R drilling I got from a good friend recently. We were discussing scope options, and Lee was cleaning the internal action and fixing the rear sight actuator. He needs to call Kreighoff and get some small parts for the sight. Lee does work for Kreighoff, mostly scope and mount related.

There are no Harbor Freight tools on this workbench.

Good, I knew they are people who specialize in these old European QD mounts, appreciate the reference.

That’s funny, right of his coffee cup is a light that was a free gift from Harbor Freight with any purchase 😂🤣

Here's the barrel markings

I gave him four of those. He likes them, and so do I.

The rifle chamber is a now obsolete round, the 8X57 R-360. It's a smaller case and pretty tame, based off a shortened 9,3X72R case and is similar ballistically to a 38-55.

Don't let the odd chambering deter you, with the right dies you can make anything.

6.5x58R Sauer(center) from 9.3x72R(right) C&H had the die I needed

Trust me, I've made lots of weird stuff over the years...

CH4D does list dies for this, and I'm sure I can get cases from RCC.

The 360 is a mild round and a real pleasure to shoot, and it will kill deer within 100 yards. It might be a lot of fun to do what erich suggests and craft some ammo. IMO it will enhance pride of ownership...a certain satisfaction.

CH4D may list it, but you would be lucky to get it by 2025.

Erich, I have never seen that center round before, pretty cool. Call it the original 6.5 manbun, 100+ years old!

They do say they are really busy on their website

An 8x57JR case will not begin to fit, so yes it is the smaller round. I'll have to see if maybe Redding or RCBS are still willing to make custom dies from a chamber cast.

And I thought the .220 Howell was esoteric!