Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Photo essay of McMillan stocks for Model 70

Based on the thread that BobinNH started regarding the choice of a Compact pattern stock for a pre-64 Model 70, I offered to develop a photo essay based on some different stocks that I have. I also built a "positioning template" so that anyone could take additional photos and we could have the basis for a valid comparison.



The positioning template is two parallel lines 2" apart, and the centerline of bore covers the top one. Three perpendicular lines spaced 1.5" apart are used to show the grip geometry. The rifle is positioned so the trigger lays on the left most perpendicular line. A line 17 3/4" forward of the trigger line is used as the basis for the comparison of forend length. (Don't ask why I didn't use 18".) Photos must be taken as close to vertical as possible, otherwise the apparent drop of the butt will be distorted. And all are for Winchester Model 70 classics, except for the short action, which is push feed. All barrel lengths measured from the front of receiver.

McMillan Echols Legend, long action 24" barrel





McMillan Supergrade 24" barrel



McMillan Remington Mountain rifle stock, modified for M70 21 1/2" barrel


McMillan Compact pattern 22" barrel


McMillan Winchester Classic (sorry for the poor focus)



Factory tupperware for short M 70 23" barrel
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/utah708/P1120025.jpg[/img]

Bridges' pattern for short M 70 23" barrel
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/utah708/P1120026.jpg[/img]

McMillan Featherweight 22 3/8" barrel
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/utah708/Featherweight.jpg[/img]
At any rate, it appears that features such as grip shape, forend length, and drop all become much more visible on the positioning template. I encourage others to add photos as well and hope that this will be helpful for people considering buying stocks that they have never had a chance to handle.

Thank you - that is very informative and useful.

Had a Supergrade stock on a Model 70 and while it handled recoil well the grip was a teensy bit too open for me. Comparing that to the very long and open Compact pattern, which is the same design as their Hunter's Edge, has cured me of any desire to ever own one of those.

Can anybody show something like this with a McMillan M70 Featherweight style?

Actually, you asking for the featherweight reminded me that I had one, so I added it into the original post.

Part of the reason for doing it was so that people could compare these photos to stocks that they had, and either liked or didn't like. For me, I like the open grips on things like the compact. This is why it is nice to have choice.

Man, you guys have no idea how much anxiety this relieves! I was going to ask utah708 today by pm for the same info on the same rifle stocks as he has used here. I've got a M70 lh Classic in 270 Win that'll be here on the 16th, and McMillans go up 10% on the 1st of January. Now I at least know much more about which one to order. Thanks so much!
My main question was which stocks may look too short for a 22-24" barrel.

Yes, stock fit is so subjective. From the picture the Featherweight definitely has the more closed grip I prefer. Been thinking that a Featherweight with the Edge technology would be the way to go and your pictures help verify that.

Thank you again!

Ok, I went back and added barrel lengths, so you could see how they matched up with different forends. Sorry that the barrels are cut off in some of the photos, but I wasn't keying on that.

I think that the barrel/forend aesthetic is an seldom considered factor when people are building guns. I have put an action with a 21" featherweight barrel in the Legend stock, and it looks funny--the barrel just looks lost in there. the brown stock with red pad has had 1 1/2" cut out of the tip to make it match that barrel better. I also think the foreend on the Win tupperware stock is too long, even with the 23" barrel in it.

Absolutely! Thanks for your work here -- this is extremely illuminating. What is the difference between the "Bridge" and the "Compact"? And where can I get either in walnut ?

Dennis

Edited to add (Other than the "Bridge" has the bolt on the correct side of the action ...)

What I am referring to as the Bridges' is the stock that J. Earl Bridges designed that is prorietary and available through Hill Country. I suspect that a stock duplicator would be willing to run a copy of a fiberglass stock for you so that you can have one in walnut.

I will probably end up selling that stock. I got it for my wife and son, built a dandy .260 Rem using it. But they both like the feel of the tupperware stock better. No accounting for taste.

I knew that doing this essay with almost all LH stocks would perplex the lysdexics.

And the wanlut sluts...

Dang I looked at wanlut sluts for a long time before I saw anything amiss.

Great essay. Very informative. Thanks for taking the time.

Utah: That is very interesting and helpful.Thanks for going to all the trouble to demonstrate how all these stocks compare. That was very nice of you.

The rifles are slick,too! Can I come live with you...

Glad you saw it.

There are not as many guns sitting around as that number of stocks would imply--several stocks are shown with the same barreled action. But sure you can come live with me; it is snow shoveling season, and we're supposed to get a big dump tonight.

We'll buy a plow! We have power outages in the region....I have a pile of people coming to stay here tonite!What fun!

Good stuff. Thanks for posting this.

7-08,

Fantastic job and concept.

Confirmed a lot of what I thought I knew.

Thanks for all the work in posting this up.

Rick should put this up as a sticky as more info is added.

MM

I think it could be a useful sticky, particularly if it got populated with stocks that I don't have. There are a lot of the Remington, Sako/Tikka variants that ought to be added.

I own a Left Hand SS Model 70 Classic in 270 Win with the Pre-64 type action and I'm getting ready to order a McMillian Edge or Featherweight for this rifle. My question the for-end on the featherweight looks very flimsy and i was wondering if the floated barrel would touch if you rested the rifle on bags close to the tip of the for end?

Whether it deflected enough to touch would depend a lot on how much of a gap there was in the inletting. I will say that the stocks I have handled in EDGE construction are stiff as a girder.

Everyone's body shape and preferences are different, but having both, I greatly prefer the Compact/Hunter's EDGE pattern to the featherwieght

I have the Edge on my 243 Win Montana 99 LH and this rifle has the Model 70 Featherweight contour Pac-Nor Barrel and i love it. I just like the Schnabel Forend tip on the Featherweight McMillian and was wanting to try one just like the Blue Stock in your photo. I also have the Super Grade McMillian on my LH Model 70 in 270 WSM.

Between the Echols and the Bridges stocks, I bet the Bridges gives less muzzle flip. To bad they won't sell a inletted M-70 stock. 850.00 is a little to steep for my blood. For a guy that wants to keep the muzzle flip to a minimum these two stocks would be the clear winners.

Is thatr because the combs are straighter?

Yes Sir, and more in line with the bore. Nice looking stock for a rifle that is going to give you a lot of recoil. I put in and order for the next batch of Legends from Echols. I'm glad I didn't see the Bridges first or I would have broke the bank for that stock. 850.00 is to rich for my blood.

I'm glad that the original post picture were made. They should answer a lot of question for folks.

For a 270, I like the compact.If I were gonna do a 300 mag or 375,etc, I like the Echols.

Utah -

That is a great thing that you have done - posting all those pics that is.

I am getting ready to order a swirly mcmillan and was hoping that you might be able to share a closer-up pic of you compact as well as the relative color ratios. I remember seeing it on another thread (couldn"t find it) and thought it was quite sharp. I am considering something very close to what you have, or the infamous "Coyote Bomber" pattern.

FWIW - this will be a Supergrade pattern going on an un-altered pre-64 Model 70 std weight bbl'd action in 30-06.

Thanks again,

Bob

Here are a couple of pics for you. It is the coyote bomber mix.





Like I say, choice of stocks is hugely personal, but I do not care for the forend of the Supergrade. It is a tad bulky (but I have small hands). I come out on their stocks much like BobinNH--compact for lighter guns/smaller barrels, and Echols Legend for 300 Mag and above.

Thanks Utah!!!

That is great!

Regarding th swirl combo - that looks like an Olive base with Med Tan and Black mixed in. Is that correct? My understanding from the threads on the Coyote Bomber stocks was that it was 50% Dark Grey, 25% Med Tan, and 25% Black. It looks good either way..tough choice.

Regarding stock pattern, I wholly agree with you on teh Legend, fits me to a tee and works better on larger bbld guns, dare I say "full-sized". I also know what you mean about the squarish forend of the Supergrade. I have larger sized hands, size 8 to 8.5, so I can deal with it okay. That said, I do wish it were rounder, but alas.....

Never handled the compact, but it looks to me like a 24 inch std weight p-64 bbl is going to look a little outsized riding in that forend, would you agree?

I have a $100 coupon burning a hole in my pocket and have to place an order before the Jan 1 10% increase.

Thanks!

Bob

The tag off that stock reads 50%olive, 25% black, 25% tan. It was done in 2005, so if they have changed their colors since then, asking for the same ratio might get different results.

BB has the CB mix down. McMillan offers 3 different shades of tan and I've always specified med tan whether going with a grey or olive base.

Great thread Utah, you have some very nice rigs.

Has anyone done the Compact pattern on a S/A Win 70?

MtnHtr

For what little my opinion is worth, that's exactly where I land as well.

Really excellent, utah708!

The template really adds to the usefulness! I can (for the first time, for many rifles) accurately judge the comb height and slope. Before this, I had to just see how they felt -- now, I can see why some left my eye looking just under the bolt.

This pictures are excellent (and for much more than for M70's too!). I hope others will add to this and use your excellent template!

John

thanks for posting that utah!

Seems like the only difference between the Echols legend and the Supergrade is that the former got the pistolgrip swept somewhat more backwards..? True?

Schlum--

There are a lot of differences between the Legend and the Supergrade that my limited photography skills cannot convey. First, there is much more detail and crisp lines on the Legend that makes it a more visually interesting stock. Second, the Legend has cast and toe out, which makes it fit better and line up with my eye more readily. Third, the shape of the forend is significantly different. The Legend is quite oval, while the Supergrade is more triangular (wider at the bottom with more distinct corners.)

There are people who would prefer one over the other. I would not presume to tell someone what stock to like. But I spoke with Mark Penrod about a project, and his preference for a stock for a bigger gun is a Legend. If that is not an option, then the Supergrade. That is an opinion that carries a lot of weight with me. Since you are a new poster, in the interest of full disclosure I will tell you that I live in the same town as D'Arcy and consider him a friend. Whether that creates a bias in my views of his stocks is for other people to judge.

My purpose with this thread is not to pimp any one stock. But a lot of people (like John in Sweden) might need to purchase a McMillan without ever handling it. Wait at least 6 months, and then it arrives. Maybe it was what you were dreaming about and hoping for, maybe not. So if the comparisons in this photo essay help people out--particularly now when there is a lot of ordering activity going on because of Rick's sale--then I'm satisfied.

Thank you Utah708, that was a very through reply!

And yes, as I live in Norway, a photo essay like this is very usefull for us who really dont know how the stock looks like before it arrives in the mail some 6 months after ordering...:)

to add to Utah's post, here is a Borden Rimrock, a Brown Precision, and a Sako Classic, all inletted for a pre-64 M70

edit: I'm apparently lousy at directions, I made the forend ref line 17-3/4" from the center vertical line, rather than the left line

Utah708 requested a Kimber on the template:

I never knew that the Brown Precision has negative drop.

battue--that looks pretty similar to the compact, except for the short forend. How does it seem to you?

Super work here guys! Very helpful!

Very close, with the exception of a straighter comb on the Kimber.
However because of scope mounting issues the compact will require a shorter lop.

Looking closer, it does appear that the comb on the Kimber is dead level-zero drop. That makes it more like the Echols and Bridges/HCR stock.

That's how I see them also. Of course a lot depends on what the rifle is going to be used for and what you are trying to get out of the stock design. But for me and recoil designed to keep the recoil managed the two you named our my two picks.

Not going to be either. Just ordered a McMillan fwt pattern off of their special page. Swirley-olive, black and gray-for $200. I can adapt.!!!!

Awesome thread, very helpful. Can someone add a M70 in Bansner stock to the template?

Great stuff,

For those that missed it.

Utah: Thanks for that great thread;very helpful and based on that I ordered a Compact Edge for my 270FW.I expect the stock any day now

Wish I could find a Rimrock for my 300 Weatherby, pre 64 M70.I always liked the looks and feel of the Rimrock but never got around to them.I understand they are no longer made.

Can't beleive I missed this one the first time around. Wish someone would do a bunch of different 700's too.

Kinda fun to see this get resurrected and have some value for people.

I think it would be great to have as many stocks as we can find put on here--using the same photo template should make all of the photos comparable.

Bob--please let me know what you think of the compact/featherweight combination.

This should be a Sticky!

Utah: I will do that!

I should be getting close to my Legend stock, as I ordered it when this thread came out. DArcy Echols said it would be six months, I hate to bug the Man, I ordered it at the end of November and it should be close to being at His shop by now?

This is a great thread for us M-70 lovers. I agree, this should be made a sticky.

This Legend stock is a fine design for recoil control, I surpriced that McMillan didn't try to buy the pattern for normal production?

I ordered my Legend stock from Echols around the same time last year (12/12), it arrived today in perfect condition. Just a hair over five months which is average for McMillan.

Here's a picture of an Echols Legend, fresh from the McMillan mold: note that the bolt handle and ejector area are not inlet, purposefully, to allow for different bolt handles to be fitted up. It's a nice touch, but something to keep in mind when ordering the stock.

This thread is awesome, very informative thanks guys. I do not want to take away from the subject at hand, M70 stocks. However I'm thinking about ordering a McMillan Edge Sako 75 stock for my .260 rem. With those templates, can anyone put up a factory Sako 75 synthetic short action stock vs a McMillan Sako 75? If so it would be greatly appreciated.

I agree this is sticky worthy!

Wow, what a great post! Thanks for doing all the hard work to put this together.

I have been ogling the Hill Country stock a lot and am more interested after seeing this thread. Does anyone have some shooting time with it and could give me their opinion?

Thanks.

In case you missed this!

Again

BTT

Utah: Been awhile and don't know if I answered this on another thread,but I like the compact Edge/FW 270 a lot.Used it in Wyoming this year,and the rifle is tied for 1st place in the "favorites" position.Thanks for posting this stuff;it was a big help.
Also,since this thread I added a M70 in 375 with an Echols Legend....sweet!

I ran across a rare, stainless, left hand model 70 in .338. I didn't like the stock, or the teflon smeared on it, or the deafening device out on the barrel, soooooooo getting a stainless PacNor #3 in .300WM (my fav) along with an Edge stock in olive. I like the Edge pattern, but wish I would have seen this thread first! Thanks for the effort guys,
Don

Bob--
I had seen elsewhere that you were pleased with the compact. You have the best pair of McMillan stocks for the Winchester 70, in my opinion: the EDGE on a light gun and a Legend on a magnum.

docdb--

If you still have that .338 takeoff barrel sitting around I would be more than happy to take it off your hands.

I'll check with the smith.....

Not to resurrect an old thread, but felt it would be better to try to keep things consolidated vs. creating a new post.

Does anyone have a picture of the High Tech Specialties Bansner stock for the Model 70 they could post following this template?

Thanks, this thread has been very helpful!

What is the drop like on a Sako Classic?

note to self

I would like to see this also, if someone has it available.

What a cool thread. Utah, you outdid yourself here. I am buying a mcmillan compact edge for my extreme weather and your template idea is great. When I get it I'll post pics of the rifle with the original B&C stock and the edge for comparison. Old thread but full of very valuable info. Thanks

Here are a few of mine. They arn't custom stocked rifles but if some of you guys like the fit of your original stocks and want to buy one very similar in a mcmillan you can compare these pics to some of the others people have posted.

Pre 64 model 70 std weight 24" barrel:


Pre 64 model 70 fwt 22" barrel:


SC model 70 fwt 308 with 22" barrel:


Winchester model 70 Extreme weather long action (30-06) 22" barrel (with B&C stock):


Winchester model 70 classic sporter with factory tupperware (Long action) 24" barrel:


FN PBR XP 300 wsm with 24" barrel (hogue overmolded stock):


One thing about this template is it tells you what you really prefer. My pre 64's fit me like a glove, so what I'll do is match up these profiles with some of the other examples and I'm in business. Thanks again utah708 for providing this great template.

Let's bump this one--it's too useful to die. If anyone has new pics of different styles, it would be useful too.

Bump it again until it get made into a sticky.

DF

That's a great idea - this thread deserves to be a sticky.

After hunting season, I'll have to make up a template and post the McMillan Winchester Hunter stock that my buddy just received.

We need to add more stocks.

DF

Winlite with sporter contour. Ain't quite "lite" at 8lb.9oz, but I like it...

Slap it on a template so we can see drop at heel/comb, length of grip and forend etc.....

Uh, yeah.

You mean I actually have to dig the damn thing out?????

Being a lefty, this thread is even more helpful as we don't get near the inletting and stock choices. I to am interested in seeing the non-Remington "Hunter" stock. I think it's inletted backwards?

Jesse, I have a lefty Hunter and others I could post up, I need to dig up some cardboard, gimme a bit.

Yes, this a cool thread.......

This thread needs a breath of fresh air. Up.

None on hand right now, so this is as close as I can get... maybe someone with a Bansner on hand will oblige.

BTDT...

Well that's not especially helpful

Care to pony up a photo or link!?

Yeah sorry Brad. Gotta PMCOTC and go to the PC

Huh?

Dude, you gotta speak plainly for us old guys

Just got a smart phone last week... it's not helping

Ha ha, here it is:



This is a good thread, utah708 really had a good idea here. I know it's helped me a time or 2 ... Brad, your red line photo works great for depicting drop at heel and comb, but the template helps to show how long the forend is, and grip angle and length, which is also helpful info. One of the reasons I bought my Bansner is because you have a high opinion of them. I am glad I tried it out and I feel they are a more comfortable stock to shoot off the bench as compared to the Mcmillan hunters compact edge I had on my EW. The parrallel comb really helps mitigate recoil. They are a dang nice stock in IMHO...

Well yeah, but like I said I don't have one on hand to do the template thing... a straight line down the bore was as good as I could do on the Paint program with old photos.

BSA Thanks for putting that up. I've always wanted to see the Bansner on UT708's excellent stock template. The Bansner ergo's really work well for me and am contemplating another for my M70 EW.

Except for a slightly tighter grip it's quite similar to the Kimber MT which is no surprise:

I've heard, second hand, that Bansner has a Miller (Dave) designed (or influenced) stock also for their model 70 stocks, as an option. Anybody with first hand experience with one?

[img:center][/img]

New Haven '70. 30'06, 24 inch barrel. Mcmillan Sako Hunter stock. A nice tight grip with a lot of vertical. I like it alot. Points well and great ergos at the bench.

If any one has thoughts comparing this stocks grip to a Winchester/Mcmillan Classic, Feel free.



[img:center][/img]

New Haven .300WSM, 24 inch barrel with Mcmillan Featherweight stock. More open grip with more horizintal than vertical. A nice trim hunting stock, but lacks at the bench.

Thanks for taking the time to make the template. It sure helps me out when I want to compare different stocks.

This thread should a sticky, one of the most helpful on the Fire� Thanks for starting it utah708!

AMEN, Heck I had never seen this topic before, and am looking for a McMillian, Manners or Edge that is the most like the Pacific/Rimrock mod 70 stock. very best

sticky!

I agree this is a great resource thus far, thanks to those that took the time to post pictures.

This is such an excellent idea and thread. Thank you all.

The Bell and Carlson posted by BSA1917 Hunter seems like a good design for a general purpose/prone application. I have a .308 MTU contour Bartlien barrel and am considering my stock options. Since I will use a short M700 action I have been leaning to the McMillan M40A-1 but am open to other options.

Any others I should look at?

It's too bad that Basner doesn't offer their stock with a cheekpiece for Winchesters (except for pre-64's). Otherwise, I'd be all over them.

Anyone have a Manners MCS-SL that they could put on the template?

Bump good info.

I found this thread while deciding what stock to get to replace the bc on my m70 ew. I was pleased to see a m70 ew depicted with the paper template. I very much like the high cheeck weld of the bc ew stock and it had the highest one of any pictured in this discussion. Can anyone recommend a stock pattern from mcmillan that will give me a nice high check weld like the stock bc stock does? I can mount that rifle blind, get consistent check weld, open my eyes and have perfect scope picture.

I like my M70 Hunter. It is basically the Sako Hunter for the M70. It has a raised Cheek Piece.

So why replace it?