Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Sighting the big bores (work on the bench)

I have shot a whole pile of big rifles in my life. The biggest being the unbraked 460 Weatherby Mag. I have some thoughts on this process. Some may sound whimpy and others may be bizzare. I just hope you guys will chime in with your ideas or tricks and we can share some reduction in the beating we take to do this job.
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<br>First I'll tell you I'm 5' 10" tall and weigh about 175 pounds. By todays standards not big. I'm about average I suppose. I am however the lightest of all the guys I shoot with, but one one guy is shorter then I am. What does this mean? I seem to shoot big rifles with less recoil effect then any of the guys I do this with. Several have mentioned mental problems on my part but all joking aside the mass of your body has a great deal to do with the felt recoil of the rifle. One of the guys is my height but 230 pounds. He suffers horribly form recoil, another is 6' 2" and 210+ he is brutally beaten by the big bore's actually anything 300 weatherby and up. So size does matter! In the case of real big guns the heavier you are the worse it would seem to be.
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<br>One guy bought a "Past" recoil magnum shield. This thing works well but not in the way I expected it to. The blast and shock are still there and the shove is still 100% of the force with or without the shield. It does prevent the small area of the stock from jabbing into the area below your collarbone and between your chest and shoulder. It creates a wide "snowshoe" of pressure rather then all the pressure from the smaller size of the recoil pad.
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<br>It's critical to hold the gun tight into your body when you pull the trigger. This eliminates the gun from picking up speed before it hits you! I find a well checkered forend is important to hold the gun tight to my shoulder. Holding your cheek tight to the stock is a big help as well. Don't let the gun rear up and smack you in the face. That is the primary cause of scope eye as well. This cheek issue is a real problem for 50mm scope useres and others with tall rings or poor stock design. If you're required to pull your face from the stock to see the crosshairs or open sights clearly you need some stock work!
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<br>I use both expandable foam earplugs, and double foam headphones. Nothing in my opinion causes flinhing more then the blast of a rifle. I have seen this time and time again. Use all the hearing protection you can find! Another gem I have used from the bench, and while shooting seated with the rifle rested across my arms and knees just this past week. I have put in my ice hockey mouth guard. It may be "whimpy" but I have twice in my life seen chipped teeth from a big bore bench shooter. It is not something you need when standing or hunting. However when sitting, prone, or from the bench the shock to your cheek and teeth is very much reduced by using this.
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<br>Finally muzzle breaks, I have seen them work like magic. I don't care for the increased noise to me or the people I'm around. I also don't care for them in the field. I have seen the ones that unscrew and that is a brilliant idea, if the POI does not change. To many guns have the POI chnage wheter it's on the gun or off. Best you check that yourself! I really hate the way they look and the difficulty to seal them up in the bush to prevent crap in the muzzle. Instead of just the hole in the end of the barrel you have a collander on the end of the barrel. Now as much as I think they are awful I will fully 100% admit that if you can remove it when hunting, it does not change the POI and your curtious to the others you're with on the range. They are without question the way to go for a big bore rifle.
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<br>As for now the "Past" magnum recoil shield, the mouth guard, Earplugs and headphones, proper stock fit, and proper shooting technique or hold will do just as well as the muzzle break, they are cheaper, and much quieter. Not much we can do if your 6 foot tall and 250 pounds though. That's just plain gonna hurt any way you cut it from what I have seen.
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<br>I have also seen guys use sandbags at the bench between the stock and their shoulder. I have seen them on the barrel as well. I think these guys need to use a little common sense to the approach. What are the odds the POI will be the same in the field when the gun is burried under sand bags to zero it? Even the sandbag behind the stock will have a great effect on the leverage of the recoiling rifle. It's amusing to me that so much is made of the tiny little details of accuracy and then the work to zero the gun is done poorly.
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<br>Anyother ideas to share?

JJ, Good post as always. I'm close to the 6'2/210 guy (add two inches, take off 5 pounds), but have shot only
<br>up to a 338. Do you think stock fit is the primary reason a taller, not necessarily heavier person might feel recoil more?
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<br>I know that my shotgun shooting improves greatly if I add a pad to increase the height of the stock. Does a
<br>spacer pad make sense for heavy rifles?
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<br>Dave

JJ, thanks for the post. I follow the logic well, but unfortunately am built like the guy that gets abused. I'm new to rifles and was wondering what equates to good stock fit? If it feels good, does it fit? I have a Ruger MKII LSS in .338 Win Mag and have noticed two things that have helped me get over flinching. 1. Let the trigger 'suprise' you. That way you're not anticipating the recoil. 2. Practice!! The human body is a very adaptable thing, it can and does get used to most things.

As far as stock fit goes, My dad told me this when I was about 12 years old and I have yet to get a better description:
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<br>Close your eyes and shoulder the rifle make yourself as comfortable as possible as if you were going to pull the trigger. Then open your eyes and see how far off from the croshairs or open sights your view is. Whatever is needed to make that adjustment you need to do. It might be simple training in the way you shoulder the gun with your eyes closed. On the other hand it might need some stock work or a replacment stock.
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<br>One thing I have found about my size being "average" is that most stocks fit me very well. I prefer a higher stock on scoped rifles and I adore my low stock on the open sight rifle. By doing this simple little exercise with your eyes closed you will see exactly where the natural placement of the stock should be. That's what I work towards on my guns. It's also why custom rifle stocks cost so much. How many stocks are you going to buy and try out on your gun to find one that fits perfect?
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<br>As far as the taller or bigger guys go, don't have much of a suggestion. I know when I shoot or see another guy shoot about my size we move with the recoil quite a bit. Having seen much bigger guys shoot, they suck it up big time. My buddy Jim's body does not move an inch back when he pulls the trigger. He absorbs all the recoil into his shoulder, chest, back, neck, head, teeth, eye's etc etc. 10 shots with a big gun and he's done for the day!
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<br>One other thing that I'm most guilty of as far as recoil and I neglected this in my original post. Be aware of where you place your cheek on the stock. Avoid creeping up towards the scope, keep your head back as far as possible on the stock while still comfortable both in view and in keeping a secure fit cheek to stock. I mention this becasue the tighter people tend to hold the rifle the more they tend to creep up on the stock. The closer you get to the grip with your face the more likey one of two very bad things is going to happen.
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<br>Number 1 bad thing, getting hit in the eye with the top edge of the scope. Really screws with your concentration for a long time after that!
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<br>Number 2 bad thing, getting the back of your grip hand smashed into your nose. Usually followed quickly by a metallic taste in you mouth followed by blood all over the stock and your hand. How do I know this?

Jim,
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<br>Well said. I shoot a fair of amount of rifles that recoil myself. I find that my 338 Ultra kicks the hardest, harder than my 416 or 375. With the 416, I use a moderately firm hold. With the 338 Ultra, I use a very firm hold. I hold it hard into my shoulder, and with my left hand I hold it down on the front rest. (I use a good rear sandbag rest as well--the cheap rear rest I used to use would routinely fall in my lap under recoil.) I keep the front rest as high as I can raise it so I am not hunching over into the rifle. Hunching into a a heavy kicker makes it hurt. I also am very aware of me eye position. I put my head only far enough forward to get a full field of view. I also make sure the scope is mounted as far forward as I can--I have been bloodied before by inadequate eye-relief.
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<br>I agree 200% that having a rifle fit you is key. In general, a touch longer pull seems to help on heavier recoiling rifles. Like you, I am not large--5'11" and 160 lbs. I work out in the gym a fair amount, and I am convinced keeping my shoulders built up by doing heavy bench-press helps my recoil tolerance.
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<br>Another key when shooting a harder kicking rifle is not "push it" during bench sessions. After a layoff, I have to work back into the 338 Ultra (the 416 is no problem). I'll shoot until I notice that I am thinking about how the gun is going to recoil before I pull the trigger. At that point, I stop for the day. This has prevented me from flinching, and after a while I can complete a whole range session with the Ultra.
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<br>I don't use muzzle brakes or sandbags between my shoulder and the rifle. I used to use a Past Recoil shiled, and think that can be a useful tool.
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<br>Blaine

This may sound crazy but here it goes anyway. Try to find something to take to the range like a step ladder and sight in from the standing position. It works, especially for the range you were wanting to sight in. 75 yards wasn't it. If you can't find an item like that to use, the best position from a bench is to be in the most erect position you can achieve while at the bench. I have used both methods for my large caliber rifles that will put 400 to 600 grain bullets out the muzzle at 2200 to 2500 FPS.

<br>I built my shooting bench to be used from the standing position. I patterned it after an old article about shooting big bore Brittish rifles. They called it the "Old English Style" bench rest. It really helps to stand so you can roll with the flow. I try to relax and lean forward and not fight the recoil. My 338 Ultra will beat you up from the conventional sitting position bench rest. I also use a sand bag between my shoulder and gun when doing load development but not for final sighting in.
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<br>BTW, I've never seen a muzzle break that didn't change POI when taken off. Mine shoots 4" higher without the brake. Good thread...James

Mybuddy Randy constantly complains about the bench I built. Littlebit and badger have both shot there so can verify it is taller than normal! It was built this way for a reason, so you don't end up sprawled in a semi-prone position while shooting off the bench. The first time Randy shot my .338 he turned around and said I hate this rifle...After getting him out of the high chair and onto the low stool he admited it wasn't tooooo bad, although still a handful.
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<br>When badger convinced me to try the Answer break on the .338 it printed 3" low but still centered up and down.
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<br>Allen and littlebit hit it right, the closer to standing the better off you are..
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<br>JJ what you describe about pointing the rifle with your eyes closed is similar to finding your natural point of aim when shooting competition or anytime trying to shoot a more difficult controlled offhand shot, you don't want the rifle to want to point two feet left or right of the bullseye when trying to shoot offhand at 200M. Adjust your feet and legs until you open your eyes and are pointing toward the black!! Same with sitting and prone if time allows..
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<br>Good thread..
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<br>Mike

Go to www.jarheadtop.com and click on the "First Four Chapters of My Book". to help get some shooting techniques...
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<br>Mike

JJ your dad was absoultly correct. I have been shooting for 40 plus years. I am a big guy that likes big guns. There are two guns that I do not like one is the model 94 Win and the other is a Thompson Center Renegade 54. The Win is way to small for me to shoot comfortably and the 54 busts me in the cheek. I'm a south paw. I have shot the 460 a lot and admit it is a hand full not something I would take out plinking but it is controlable, just takes a lot of control. I have a 458 Win and a 458x2 American the Win is not at all unpleasant the 458x2 is a mite short in the pull and can be uncomfortable when shooting in t-shirts. IBuilt it purposefully short to sholder quickly when wearing heavy cloths, Brown bear defence while fishing SE Alaska Rivers. I also shoot a number of 45/70's Ruger #1 and #3, the 3 is a real hand full with hot loads. My favorite big bore is my 45-70 Contender this is lots of hand gun but not at all unpleasant. I shoot a lot so few guns bother me, except that first shot from a gun I have never shot, that one always causes a bit of trepedation.
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<br>Bullwnkl.

I find that rifles that are muzzle light tend to jump more and the stock bites my cheek.
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<br>I have a large front sand bag [grooved top] that weighs about 50 pounds. It came with a web strap that goes around the bag and back around the rifle butt so that the recoiling rifle must drag that sandbag with it. Plus all of the above ear protection.
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<br>That stand-up shooting bench does sound interesting.

Ditto what Allen said. I learned this myself, several years ago.
<br>I used a discarded pallet, stood on end, with my gloves as padding. Shooting while standaing does allow the body to move with the recoil.
<br>I plan to make a tall set of shooting sticks this summer for a lot of my shooting "at the bench".
<br>I'm 5'3" 130 lbs. Recoil used to be otay in the begining of my "gun writing career", but now that I have a spine disease, the recoil tends to get the best of me sometimes. And standaing while shooting feels beter. ~~~Suluuq
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Rusty have you been fooling with us? is your real name "buckwheat" ?

I'm probably pretty typical of the first time big bore shooter. Before buying my .375HH, I'd never shot anything larger than .30-06 and 180 grain rounds. The M70 Safari Express made sense to me because it was hefty and had the high and wide stock comb.
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<br>Now I'm saying this only works for me, but I keep my practice sessions to 10 rounds max. This keeps me fresh and focused on real practice, rather than just shooting, and I don't build habits of sloppy handling and flinch because of the cumulative effects of recoil.
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<br>I'm 6' and 210lbs and I also double up on ear protection and use a Past pad.
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JJ,
<br>I have shot .375 for years, but a few years ago a friend of mine had a .416 Wby. Euromark he wanted to get rid of, and I just couldn't resist.
<br>I immediately began handloading, and shoot the 350 gr. Barnes X.
<br>I generally shoot on my own property, away from the shooting ranges. I use the PAST recoil pad, but find the recoil of the .416 with its muzzle brake to be entirely manageable. This rifle and handloads are capable of one-hole accuracy at 50 yards.
<br>BTW, my next trip to Africa will include this rifle, for buffalo. I have heard and read all sorts of posts re: effects of muzzle brake blast on bystanders. I will ask all around me to cover their ears, I am interested in using an adequate tool for the job. I agree with your observation of tight hold, checkering, etc. These big bores are capable of hurting if not handled properly.
<br>Actually, they are kind of fun to shoot, once you realize they aren't going to kill you!

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr><p>Even the sandbag behind the stock will have a great effect on the leverage of the recoiling rifle. It's amusing to me that so much is made of the tiny little details of accuracy and then the work to zero the gun is done poorly.
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<br>When I try a new load in my 458Win I always have a small sandbag on my shoulder. This help me to find the POI of the load without beeing blue all over the shoulder. Last time when I changed from my cast training load (450gr at 1120f/s) to the little more powerfull hunting load (350gr at 2520ft/s) I had forgot the bag at home and had to sight in it without. It took me five shot to be on the paper and some more before POI was where I wanted. After that blueing session I was wondering why I needed the 458Win Next day I was at the range testing the POI with the bag since I was a little bit afraid that the flinching at the end of the session the day before could have influenced my aiming. The first three shots was at the target exactly as I wanted, no difference in POI between the painfull and painless shooting.
<br>Offcourse I agree with JJ that you cant have anything touching the barrel and that you must hold the rifle firm to your shoulder. But I need a protection between me and the stock if I am testing the accuracy and velocity of different loads on the bench. This small sandbag I use is only a filled "tennis sock" so I can hold the rifle fairly normal.
<br>PerN
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JJ... Its an Inupiaq Eskimo word, pronounced "Buh wheat".
<br>It means, great hunter of the North. ~~~Suluuq

My routine is as follows:
<br>1-I use a Past recoil shield. It distributes recoil over an even wider surface then the rifle pad.
<br>2-I adjust my seat height until I sit up straight, meaning no hunching and stock crawling, this keeps my eye far from the scope rim, and properly places the recoil pad in the shoulder pocket rather like in the standing position. Recoil gets now soaked up by the fleshy part of the shoulder pocket rather then the bony parts when one hunches behind the gun.
<br>3- I use a bench master for gun rest, holding on firmly to the fore-end. I perceive less felt recoil sitting straight up behind my bench master. Likely, because it is extra resistance for the gun to have to shove it backwards too. The benchmaster is a darn fine jig for load devellopment and sighting the rifle in.
<br>4- I do use muzzle brakes on some but not on all my big bore guns. I find them great for load devellopment at the range. 1 rifle gives a different point of impact, and I sight it in without the brake.
<br>5- The rubber between the teeth sounds like a good idea which I will definitely explore!!!!

Great thread...
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<br>The heaviest recoiling rifles I have are a 376 Steyr Scout and a 45-70 Co-pilot.
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<br>The Scout is OK to shoot in small doses from the bench. It only wieghs 8 pounds loaded and has a pretty sharp recoil impulse. 270 grain XLC's @ 2550 FPS.
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<br>The Co-pilot is a different matter. It weighs 6 3/4 pounds loaded and I'm driving a 500 grain bullet @ 1550. This thing says hello! THe best way I've found to shoot it is standing up. When I sighted it in, I got out my shooting sticks and used them. Standing, the recoil rocks you back a little more to use up the energy. As this one is sighted for 100 yds, the sticks work fine.