Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

gunner500,

Well then, I know you are a master caster and BPCR shooter rivaling your mentor Bill "sharpsguy" Bagwell.
(Let us not mention how much better you are at +1000 yards with your scoped .338/.378 WBY with that new-fangled smokeless powder,
so as to maintain respect for our elders.)

Have you tried the powder-coated, gas-checked bullets yet ?
I bet the start pressure and bearing surface of a PC-painted FNGC from the proper mould would be closer to the TBSH 500-grainer
than the Ol' Hornadys.
The drill for smokeless, high-velocity loads in the .458 WM+ is to size those high-tech, homemade bullets
(PC-painted, and gas-checked)
to 2-thou greater than your groove diameter,
and make them out of hard alloy about 25 BHN.
Different from your buffalo-butter-piercers with BP.

Here is how H4895 (compressed) and AA-2460 (non-compressed) compared with my homemade 543-grain FNGC-PCP:



Subtract 15 fps from my 25"-barreled chrono velocity at 5 yards to get corresponding 24"-barrel result,
if JES barrels are comparable to Shilen.
Some guys say their 18.5" custom barrels shoot faster than their 22" Winchester factory barrels, however !



About 2200 fps MV seems to be the accuracy limit on MV with the BHN 25 FNGC-PCP.
I now have a bee in my own bonnet buzzing about a hardcast 500-grain FNGC-PCP seated to 0.350" depth to mimic TBSH loads.

Very happy to see you here, Ron, along with Mike and gunner500.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Uncle Bob !
Great ! Spread the word that we are here, having escaped the anti-free-speech site where lies prevail.
I just closed the imgurdotcom account I used to post there. The truth seekers will have to come here to see any new material
on the .458 Winchester Magnum as well as some of the old.

We will be moving on to 450 TSX loads after we finish a framework of H4895 basics,
from reduced loads without fillers required, to stout loads, compressed charges of H4895 with heavy bullets.
Those H4895 loads can be beaten in some cases
(maybe not with all cases, pun intended) using the outstanding new ball powders that require no compression.

H4895, the extruded powder that built Hodgdon from surplus military version to current formulation from Oz, is the 30-06-of-powders in the .458 WM and .458 WM+.
It may not be the best for every load, but it is the best in the broadest range of applications,
and might even be the best possible for some loads.
Bear with me for a review of 400-gr, 500-gr, and 600-gr basics with H4895 before we move on to big game loads with 400-gr and 450-gr bullets,
and varmint loads of 250-gr to 350-gr weights, with other powders, ball and extruded.

H4895 BASICS

400-grain Speer FNSN







500-grain Ol'Hornady RNSN (Gen-1)







600-grain Barnes Original RNSN





The above data summarized for three bullets shot over 2 days, in same rifle, 48*F to 52*F:



And two different 400-grainers shot in two different rifles at 48*F to 87*F:

We'll be getting around to test firing this eventually, with the fancy new ball powders:





2469 fps MV with the 450-gr TSX was done by me with AA-2230 charge 84.0 grains
(at 41*F in 25" Shilen-barreled CZ 550 Magnum)
by moving out to the 4th cannelure and a COL of 3.680".
Not cool.

gunner500 has done this at 3.565" COL, which is very cool:



And Uncle Bob did this at even shorter COL ! Way cool:



But first, this is ready to go for testing of H4895 BASICS:





And then the 3.562" COL with other ball powders that will be hard pressed to beat H335, AA-2230, and AA-2460 ...

The recoil of the above load will make your head and shoulder hurt and your ears ring ,been there done that, NO THANKS. Rio7

Ron,

Just checked and all the images/photos of yours on the AR/458 thread have gone

Mike,
Are you telling the truth as usual ? That is wonderful news.
The blasted imgurdotcom stuff is lingering on my devices.
I guess I need to reboot here in more ways than one.
Ha ha.

I had just figured out this morning how to make a better PDF out of the thread...when I noticed a lot of images had gone missing! Sorry to see that, but glad to see you posting here. I hope to have some new H4895/380 gr Lehigh Defense results soon.

come on guys we need to keep sending emails and calls to Barnes to start making the TSX in a 400 grain as they did for Buffalo Bore, I'm sure we will buy more bullets than Buffalo did for a special run, we have to keep bugging them and since Sierra bought them they just might, Ron good to be here. Karl thanks for the info on Ron and the invite. Jim

Hello RIP, er, Riflecrank! A little bird told me you had moved over here, and I had to come see for myself. That was also good because not only will I escape the censorship, but I had forgotten I had joined this forum some time ago. Looking forward to seeing what else you can cook up with the .458 loads, especially with CFE223. Do we count this page number for The Mission as 2 + 233?

Hello also CZ550, MikeMcGuire and other political refugees!

not quite as great as the 416 Rigby

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...y-ruger-m77rsm-mkii.cfm?gun_id=101582626

Man, I need some AA-2230 to get a solid 2450 fps with the 450gr TSX's Ron, have been on the lookout, and no Sir, I haven't shot any coated bullets in my rifles.

So how close to 458 Win Mag could you get a 45-90 in a strong rifle (modern 1885)? I think mine had a 28" barrel.

RIP,
When I saw those pix, I knew where you had landed. And with several buddies I see - good show!

Bugger asked ",So how close to 458 Win Mag could you get a 45-90 in a strong rifle (modern 1885)? I think mine had a 28" barrel"
IMHO, close enough to kill the largest DG!
At least that is what my Miroku 1886 .45-90 with 26 inch barrel did with 450 grain NF, Punch, and Kodiak at 2150 fps. An ele, multiple buff, and a BIG old leopard.(300 grain Nosler PP at 2200 fps).

These were all taken within 100 yards range, some much closer where you get to see the dust fly when the bullet hits.

You could likely tweak out a higher velocity, but it is really not needed for hunting + the added velocity might increase recoil.

i enjoy reading about the big bore rifles, i still own a 458 Win.mag,458 Lott,416 Rigby,450 Nitro,375 H&H but with my rebuilt shoulders i no longer shoot these fine Ruger #1`s i own ,these #1`s now are safe queens unless a Mammoth shows up here in the cold winter snow. thanks posting i sure enjoy reading and seeing the pictures. Pete53

The Big Bore Forum is about to become interesting

Got a PM and an email that the work of The Mission continues here. Huzzah! Waiting for Accurate Mold's 46-394N to arrive. Bullet was designed expressly for the .458 WM.

Well, whichever load you are referring too, there are reduced loads and light-bullet loads galore.
Wear muffs and plugs at the bench and use elbow pads and a pad between rifle and you at the bench.
Three pieces of high-density foam rubber cut from a butt cushion like used in ground blinds and tree stands.
This allows me to fire 60 rounds per day, two days in a row with no ill effects from a no-brake, 9-pound-dry Ruger No. 1.









Those are three hits on big gong at 600 yards with a low-velocity, 487-grain Linotype, PC-Painted, plain-base "Government" round nose.
Duplicating the rainbow trajectory of the bison-butter-piercers with smokeless and cast.
I know, I know, sharpsguy and gunner500 can do better with iron sights and BP,
but I am just a plinker, a rank amateur.
The .458 WM can be fun.

Here is the "parts rifle" that hit the gong with cast bullets and can also be single loaded with too-long-COL 500-gr TSX "target bullets."
It is a Pre-'64 Winchester M70 .30-06 action with a CZ 550 Magnum barrel set back 1/8" for 24-7/8" barrel, re-chamber for SAAMI .458 WM with 3.4" box length.

See load data graph and two targets below:













[img]https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/149986.jpg[/img]

[img]https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/149987.jpg[/img]

Thanks to all the missionaries, I'll get to it again after a nap.

Great stuff Ron.