Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Ron, AKA Riflecrank, RIP knows more and has done more for the 458 Win Mag than any ammo maker or loading manuel and knows more than any other person

Without a doubt...

Welcome aboard Riflecrank, any friend of Gunner500 is a friend of mine. Great thread, makes we want to dig the 458 out of the safe and shoot it more

MikeMcGuire,

What a warm reception here !
Just goes to show how little is going on at ardotcom. My imgur account sure ain't going on there now.
I went back to the political forum and could not resist leaving a Baby Ruth in their swimming pool today,
it is a cess pool afterall.
Let us see if DRG and Saeed ban me again for speaking the truth.

Hannay,

With the 380-gr Lehigh you cannot overload your .458 WM Browning Safari rifle with H4895
unless you compress the powder until the case bulges below the bullet !
Just pick a charge from the graph (above) for the 400-grain Speer, and follow Bob's lead.
Use the Speer at about 1800 fps (63 grains) or the Remington at about 2000 fps (68 grains)
or be daring and go for Light Nitro Express with 70 grains.
You just gotta try the loads and find which ones make your rifle vibrate most accurately.

Hydehunter,

With the bankruptcy of Remington ownership of Barnes, is Sierra taking over Barnes Bullets ?
We can only hope the old exclusive contract for the 400-gr TSX production going to Buffalo Bore only
will expire sooner than later.

bcelliott,

Good one about this thread beginning on page 1 + 233.
My first sampling of CFE 223 is awaiting weather to stop alternately raining and snow and for temps to get over 40*F.
2200 fps with a 500-grainer that cleans your barrel of copper fouling would be a good thing.
I also note your suggestion of using the higher capacity Norma .458 WM brass to get charges of CFE 223 bigger without compression.
But that is gonna kick a bit more getting to 2300 fps with more powder weight and slower powder than any other I have tried in the .458 WM+.

Bugger,

I used to think like you.
My first cape buffalo fell to a .416 Rigby Ruger RSM Gen-2, 20 years ago.
.416/ 380-grain GSC FN at just over 2500 fps, atop 105.0 grains of H4831, as recommended to Jack O'Connor by John Buhmiller
for any 400-gr or 410-gr bullet.
It was a bugholer with the 380-gr GSC FN and great with all the 400-grainers I also tried. None as accurate as the GSC FN.



That was during my period of .458 WM neglect. I call it my dark ages.
Since then I have seen the light.
Hereafter it is a .458 WM+
and maybe a .375 WBY for a second rifle if I am not allowed to take two chambered for .458 WM.

gunner500,

I learn from you. I am going to go back to AA-2230 and use a shorter COL like you did with the 450-grain TSX": 3.565" instead of 3.680"
You must have noted that 83.0 grains of AA-2460 is a full load and got you only 2418 fps from a 24" barrel.
BUT YOUR PRIMERS WERE NOT FLATTENED.
We need a slightly faster powder to get pressures and velocities up, aye.
I will SWAG again, I think AA-2230 is just a form of AA-2460 in which a certain percentage of the perfect spheres of AA-2460 have been flattened.
The flattening allows greater weight of powder to fill a fixed volume with the AA-2230,
and the flattened balls produces greater surface area of the powder so it burns faster.

crshelton ol'buddy thanks for the welcome.

To elaborate on your reply to Bugger about the .45-90, yours in an M1886, and his in an M1885 Hi Wall with 28" barrel:

Uncle Bob did a long throated Ruger No. 1 .45-70 Govt. with 2.1" case and equaled the SAAMI-restricted .458 WM ballistics.
He called it the ".45-70 LT."
Bugger could easily do it with his 2.4"-case in the 1886.
I had a reamer made by Dave Manson for the .45-100 Sharps Straight 2.6" that had the SAAMI .458 WM throating tacked onto it.
The Starline brass case itself (.45-2.6") is two grains of water bigger in gross capacity than the WW-Super or Hornady brass for .458 WM.



The .45-100 Sharps Straight 2.6" Winchester Throated (.45-2.6" SWT or .45-100 SWT) will handle any load I can put in the .458 WM 2.5".
COL is just 0.1" longer in the former than the latter.

After I "invented" this I found it had been homologated by CIP about a quarter century ago (IIRC) as the ".45-70 Elko Magnum."
Exactly the same chambering.



Some ammo for the .45-70 LT and .45-100 SWT:



Some rifles for the .45-100 SWT:

Ruger No. 1 with Pedersoli barrel: Add 2.5 pounds of scope and rings (i.e., S&B 4-16x50mm P&M II Mildot in 34mm rings) and it weighs 14 pounds.



Ruger No. 1 .45-70 Govt. re-chambered to .45-70 Elko Magnum aka .45-2.6" SWT, etc.: Add 1.75 pounds of scope and rings and it weighs 9 pounds.



Those two rifles are the upper and lower limits on weights of rifles that I have capable of .458 WM+ ballistics.
I have fired 0.461" diameter cast lead bullets from both with good results, even the tighter Pedersoli barrel.
That is mainly what they are for, cast bullets.
The tighter Pedersoli is good for paper-patched BP loads too, like the Sharps guys might load.

Speaking of the devil, 500gunner sent me some .45-2.6" Starline brass so I got even with him by sending him some 450-gr TSX.
Tit for tat.

pete53, jwp475, 451whitworth, jorgeI, and irfubar,

Buy a donkey (Afrikaans with a Kentucky accent for "thank you very much")
for all the flowers thrown my way.
Jorge, Todd Williams wanted to get in touch with you, Navy fighter pilot to Navy fighter pilot.
I hope the old telephone numbers I gave him were still good.
You were very wise to fire ardotcom a while back.

I picked up a supergrade.458 in the 80s,
and it looked to have some age on it, so
I gather it was something from the 70s
Wasn't too impressed with the stock
inletting, how were yours in that regard?

Agree, they were not that great in that regard, Although the checkering was very functional, being deep and sharp. They were vey business like looking rifles.

Starman,

Both rifles had what were abut the slickest actions going.

Yes checkering was well cut and functional
with generous wrap around on the forend...
Steel grip cap and double screw swivel base.

If sources are correct, Harry Selby waited so
long to have his re-barrel Rigby 416 returned
to him that he finished out his PH career with
push-feed M70_ .458...His Rigby was away for
like 8 yrs, so he used the 458 that a client had
given him....it's mistakenly believed by some
that Rigby London was to blame - Selby set the
record straight that it wasn't Rigby Co. but gov.
red tape at his end that would not release his rifle.

Although not his favored Mauser, Selby does not
say anything negative about the push-feed 458.

Makes me laugh a pro can live by his PF
but amatuer vacation hunters to Africa
must insist on CRF.

canuckistan

I have a Winchester Model 70 in 458
on AR on the thread of RIP I have learn a lot on reloading my rifle

I shoot mostly cast bullet
will join with RIP in posting my limited learning on the subject as soon as the summer hits
minus 13 degrees over here

I have followed RIP on this site could not see a day past without reading and learning on the 458 t...... or +

keep the good works RIP

Canuckistan

You said "After I "invented" this I found it had been homologated by CIP about a quarter century ago (IIRC) as the ".45-70 Elko Magnum." Exactly the same chambering. cool .

Since I had a vague memory of such a cartridge, I did some research on the ".45-70 Elko Magnum." and found a old thread on the Cast Boolits Forum about a Beretta DR of that caliber. which may have been a Beretta shotgun converted to a .458 double rifle of considerable power . It even had .45-70 Elko Magnum stamped on the barrels. As soon as I get my Beretta .45-70 DR with 26 inch barrels a little better regulated with 405 grain bullets, I will look into that Elko Magnum! There are even some loaded 450 grain 45-90 rounds left over from their trip to Africa,


Going through my collection of .458 and .411 bullets, I discovered a long forgotten box of .458 North Fork 450 grain Flat Point Solids! Same bullets used in my 1886 .458 2.4 in Africa to put ele and buff to sleep.
From 20 yards, frontal brain shots went through the skull, brain, and on out into the body ! Naturally they shot through the Cape Buff. There are even some loaded 450 grain 45-90 rounds left over from their trip to Africa, mmmmm Maybe I am not too old for another African hunt. ?

Riflecrank, if this works out, I may have to buy you a Donkey!

Ron, RIP, good to see you posting here. Been a long time since I visited ardotcom on a regular basis to see what you were up to.
John S

Canuckistan,
I know what you mean. I am down south in KY and we might have had 14*F last night, warming to 21* for tonight's low.
Hope to be burning some powder myself when the snow and "Cold Kentucky Rain" let up.
Burn some H4895 with your 550-gr WFN-GC in your .458 WM, whenever possible, and let us know how it works.
I predict excellent results.

crshelton,

I would re-chamber your DR to .45-70 Elko Magnum in a heartbeat.
Maybe I better practice on my Baikal Spartan .45-70 DR first.
The only other gun I have hand-reamed was an NEF/H&R 12-ga Super Slug conversion to 12 Ga From Hell 3.85".
That might be enough practice.
Send it on, I'll be careful.

John55, known formerly to me as John S:

Well doggies, glad you are still kickin', and wise enough to fire "that other web site."
I have wised up too, some of us are slower than others.
I do recall a shared admiration for the .375 WBY.
Here is a battery to die for:

MikeMcGuire and Starman,

Thanks for the memories of the old pushfeed .458 WM M70.
Just for fun:

Hi Ron & Co, I see I need to look here for up to date .458Win info (I just use the 500gr on every thing) lol !

I have fitted the Brno ZKK 602 .458Win barrel to my Brno ZKK 600 action & with out any mag work fits 3 in the mag & feeds, I have factory rifles that don't do that, I'll do some work on the mag & hopefully find a bigger/wider mag box (it was 30/06) but my take off CZ 9.3X62 stock is stuck in the US for a while yet.

I think I'll bob the barrel off at 21-21.5in when I get the stock to see what the balance is like !

Baie Dankie

Sarg,

Welcome to the Master Buffalo Buster from Down Under, g'dye might, and buy a donkey for the spelling lesson.
Those parts rifles can be amazing performers.
Sounds like you have a star in the making.
My Chimera WinCZechster is precious, CZ 550 Mag .458 barrel on a Pre-'64 M70 .30-06 action, in a Tupperware stock !
Between all of us here we ought to be able to come up with some loads you might like in your slick feeder.
If the Three Stooges can design a SAAMI .458 Lott, aka the .458 Lott-Not,
we can surely do better than that with a .458 WM.