24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 11 12
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392



Leave the chronograph at home

Impacts on paper at long range matter


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
BP-B2

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,665
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,665
the reason it works is because field conditions always change. lots of powder change. for instance I have a load with varget for a 22-250 that has the same POI at 100 yards in a 4 grain window. another instance. I burned up all the n133 for my 17 fireball. I started a new lot that is brand new. load sped up by 100+ fps. same POI. if a load is that finaky you don't want it. I load up 7 or 8 cases with different powder charges up to what I am pretty sure is slightly beyond max. The load that is most forgiving up to and past max is the one that normally gets picked.

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,180
B
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
B
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12,180
Cool vid RC. Thanks.


Semper Fi
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Originally Posted by beretzs
Cool vid RC. Thanks.


I thought so as well. I’ve never used a chronograph for the sole purpose of load development by examining SD or ES.


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 41,667
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 41,667
How many shots per charge level are you shooting in your ladder?


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
IC B2

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Originally Posted by mathman
How many shots per charge level are you shooting in your ladder?

When shooting the Audette, only one shot per increment is used


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 41,667
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 41,667
That conjures the demon of statistical (in)significance.

Last edited by mathman; 12/21/22. Reason: word change

"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 42,488
B
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 42,488
Originally Posted by rcamuglia



Leave the chronograph at home

Impacts on paper at long range matter

Good video. Didn't need this guy telling me this though. I always say the real proof is on the target. I've seen so many guys struggle at the range, wondering why the loads they are working with that have the best numbers, don't always show the best precision on target. Now throw in concentricity and other factors. That seems to have more of an impact on precision than chasing your tail with SD and ES.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

BSA MAGA
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by rcamuglia



Leave the chronograph at home

Impacts on paper at long range matter

Good video. Didn't need this guy telling me this though. I always say the real proof is on the target. I've seen so many guys struggle at the range, wondering why the loads they are working with that have the best numbers, don't always show the best precision on target. Now throw in concentricity and other factors. That seems to have more of an impact on precision than chasing your tail with SD and ES.

I thought it was good as well, with so many I see doing load development by simply shooting ladders at 100 yards and paying attention only to chronograph readings to choose their load


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Originally Posted by mathman
That conjures the demon of statistical (in)significance.



It really doesn’t rely on statistics.

It’s ALL about isolating a barrel exit time during the muzzle’s movement that nullifies vertical stringing at long range.

The very definition of a good long range load.


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
IC B3

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 21,861
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 21,861
Does this mean you are Audistic?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,757
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,757
Originally Posted by mathman
That conjures the demon of statistical (in)significance.
Yeah. The small sample size problem applies to POI as well as velocity.

What may look at first glance like "nullifying vertical stringing" may actually just be random chance. Repeat the same ladder test multiple times with the same results, and there starts to be some correlation.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by mathman
That conjures the demon of statistical (in)significance.
Yeah. The small sample size problem applies to POI as well as velocity.

What may look at first glance like "nullifying vertical stringing" may actually just be random chance. Repeat the same ladder test multiple times with the same results, and there starts to be some correlation.


Shooting the loads in the visibly obvious node and picking the best confirms the nullification of vertical

It also results in good long range load identification in as little as 10 rounds

Seldom have I had to repeat an Audette.


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,342
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,342
rcamUGLYa,


Your ladder is worthless.


Signed, the bell curve.


https://vimeo.com/7804433


Originally Posted by shrapnel
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle.


Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Originally Posted by bellydeep
rcamUGLYa,


Your ladder is worthless.


Signed, the bell curve.


https://vimeo.com/7804433


Excellent input, as normal

😂😂😂


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,643
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,643
Very interesting video. My concern with "my own" accuracy and loads has always been "do I have a large enough sample size to make any determination?". After reviewing this video, it reminds of how I often wonder how many times I have actually discarded what would have been, or was, the optimal load from those I created and tested.


_________________________________________________________________________
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,828
S
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
S
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,828
Bench shooters chase the rabbit hole.. every time you improve one thing, you have to go to the next variable to make it better…

Velocity mostly comes from pressure…. And leaving the barrel at the same time comes from another type of consistency, and how many, and much vibrations are in the system you are shooting.

Small samples have always had the issues he’s talking about - however, that’s only one of the variables.

With my PRS rifle I can’t find a group that doesn’t cloverleaf at 100 yards these days so I had to move out further, and shoot at sun up to refine my loads more.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,912
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,912
Pencil neck talking nonsense

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,392
Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Pencil neck talking nonsense



[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
Page 1 of 12 1 2 3 11 12

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
CTV
Who's Online Now
434 members (257 mag, 1lesfox, 22250rem, 2500HD, 12344mag, 1lessdog, 42 invisible), 1,381 guests, and 1,068 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3-22



 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.052s Queries: 13 (0.002s) Memory: 0.9856 MB (Peak: 1.1197 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2023-02-14 12:21:58 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS