Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders The smokeless rabbit hole

Been thinking about going down the smokeless muzzleloader rabbit hole. Been looking at hanks and arrowhead barrels. Thinking about an encore vs repurposing an action for one. Ballistics look pretty impressive if you can use smokeless in your area. Any thoughts or opinions of anyone shooting smokeless Thanks

An Encore would be great to build. I know a few guys that have smokeless muzzleloaders, and like them a lot. They are either Savage 110's or built on Rem. 700's. Pacnor barrels are really good.

I have a cva scout 45-70 conversion along with a savage centerfire action smokeless. Both are fantastic. One uses an out of date Hankins style ignition and the other uses arrowheads system. The savage can be pushes much harder than the breakdown style guns. But a rifle that doesn’t use a barrel but can be pushed harder than my savage. Pretty sure my barrel is a pacnor. Much better than using a black powder substitute!

I have 2 smokeless muzzleloaders. A Savage bolt action with a Brux barrel and a CVA Scout 45/70 conversion from Hankins. If your shots are 300 yards and under buy the Scout conversion from Hankins. Very accurate guns. 60 -62 gr of 4198 and a Fury 275gr bullet you will have a tack driver .

A 275gr bullet at 2600 f.p.s. is all you will need. The hunting rifle can be kept to a reasonable weight

I have an arrowhead barrel for an encore frame. It shoots great with both bh209 and smokeless. Wish I’d done it a long time ago. Not cheap for our 10 day season here and powder/primers are hard to get right now

I’m a big fan. 275 grain bullet and 60 grains of powder did not kick nearly as hard as I expected. I forget weight of gun but I think it’s just under 10lbs scoped so that helps soak up the recoil

If you get comfortable with the cost I don’t think you’ll regret taking the plunge

Absolutely love my Arrowhead/Brux barreled Encore. Shoots lights out with Luke's 275gr NSR Bullets. Weighs in @ 9.5 lbs. as shown. Only complaint I have is that I didn't build one sooner!

That’s a super nice encore ^^. I think a lot of guys built the heavy built bolt actions from the get go because they can be pushed harder/faster since they have more barrel to do so. With that comes a weight penalty though and it seems some are reverting back to the break action guns due to their less weight/handleability. And I contemplate it myself considering I have an encore frame. Smokeless guns are cool guns and I would safely say nothing hits like they do when it comes to killing critters…a 275gr lighter jacketed bullet at 3,000fps sounds like you hitting the side of a drum with a hammer on a good still evening when you shoot a deer. Held safe and in vitals they don’t tend to take a step.

Heard a lot of good things on the arrowhead encore barrels. Might be trying one out as well.

I have a CVA Apex and a M700 barrel nut gun Be careful as they are addicting and way out perform a regular muzzleloader.

What kind of drop are you getting with the encore barrels at say 300 yards? fps? Seems to be the ticket for entry level.

"This isn't Kansas anymore, Toto". And these aren't muzzle loaders anymore, except in the sense that they're loaded from the muzzle. As soon as Fish&Game Departments instituted special ML seasons as a nod to traditionalists, as like for archers, to practice an arcane sport, human nature being what it is the arms race began. Instead of refining/practicing hunting skills to get up close and personal with the deer to make a clean one shot kill, we've substituted technology.

I'm already sorry I brought it up. The toothpaste can't be squeezed back into the tube.

You still burning wood to cook, coal oil to light and trekking across 2' of snow to get to the outhouse at 3 in the morning to take a dump?

Have a hand pump on the kitchen counter to fill the cook pot?

Don't be a smartass. Of course not, but I do like to escape to environs like that occasionally to relax a bit while experiencing how my forebears existed, and leave the modern world behind for a short bit.

I don’t think any of that has been taken away from you. Because I like to push the distance and you prefer to get up close shouldn’t matter. The last thing I want is to have some more rules tell me otherwise. Muzzleloader = loading down muzzle.

Whatever floats your boat. Not much reason to go smokeless here as the season is short, as are the ranges. Pretty much any old smokepole is good to go, and while I lost my coonskin cap sometime in the late 50s, I still enjoy toting the old-style ones a bit.

My comment is entirely about how a primitive weapons opportunity has been subjoined into an arms race that has little or nothing to do with it's original intent. Some states recognize that and provide two ml seasons, which is only fair IMO.

Of a mind that new style of smokeless ML guns revolves around the legend of how "hard" it is to keep a BP gun clean after shooting. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have several old school ML guns that are so easy to clean it's stupid. JMO

Had a friend that went down the "smokeless" rabbit hole a few years ago. Thought he didn't have to clean it and that misunderstanding left him with the worst corrosion I've seen in a ML barrel.

Another legend has it that "smokeless" is more accurate than BP. Perhaps some guns are more accurate than others, but I'm of a mind that the powder isn't a barrier to success. Billy Dixon would likely agree with that.

My own experience with BP ML's and cartridge rifles?

100 yards, elbow rest with a tang sight .45-70. It takes 3 patches to clean the bore, a 4th to oil it.


50 yards, offhand with a .45 cal flintlock. I typically use around 5 patches to clean it. Been shooting it for about 10 years and it doesn't have the first fleck of rust in the bore.


200 yards, bag rest, .40 caliber shooting a 300 grain conical. Wind was 15G25, full value L-R. 3 patches and it's spotless.


100 yards, offhand, .38-55 Win. Guess how many patches...

I get it.

I have a Hawken when I want to play Grizz Adam's. Have an inline w black substitute when I want to have minimal clean up if smno shots fired.

From my experience my Hawken actually cleans up easier.

Our ML season is gone now and we have an "alternative weapons" season.

Smoke poles, in lines, modern pistols, atlatls and maybe even spears allowed. No telling what else.